5 LNB Test on 4' Dish

[Costactc]

I have decided to test out my 5 lnbs that I have on hand for ku band. I will be using my Dr Hd F15 receiver for the test as it is the one that is attached to my 4' Fortec dish and Stab HH 1.2 motor. I will be testing on 3 different satellites on the American arc:

Amc 6-72w-12053

Galaxy 17-91w-12010

Amc 1-103w-11840

The five lnb that I will be testing head to head are:

Invacom snh-031

Jsc322-2

Titanium pll-1ks

Bsc321sp

Invacom twf-031


These happen to be the lnbs that I have on hand and I do realise that 2 of them, the bsc321sp and invacom twf-031 are intended for prime focus dishes. It will be interesting to see the reults.

[Costactc]

The first lnb to be tested is the one that is presently on my dish, Invacom snh-031:

Amc 6- 12053- 13.7 db

G17- 12010- 16.1 db

Amc 1- 11840- 10.4 db

[Costactc]

The second lnb to be tested is the Jsc322-2:

Amc 6- 13.9db

G17- 16.0 db

Amc 1- 9.9 db

[Costactc]

The third lnb is the Titanium pll-1ks:

Amc 6- 13.5 db

G17- 14.8 db

Amc 1- 11.7 db

[Costactc]

The fourth lnb to be tested is the prime focus bsc321sp and its results are slightly under the others but that's understandable:

Amc 6- 12.2 db

G17- 13.4 db

Amc 1- 7.3 db

[Costactc]

The fifth and final lnb to be tested is the Invacom twf-031, another prime focus lnb and I had to mod the neck size slightly to accomodate holder:

Amc 6- 12.4 db

G17- 13.6 db

Amc 1- 8.6 db

[chifut]

...Soo finaly ,is the third one the - 'titanium ' show the best results ??/
..I already have one on my Musac dish .. Thanks for the test Costa ...

[Costactc]

Overall, the invacom snh-031 showed the overall best reults but just slightly. The titanium kicked the others butts on the really tough NBC tp on inclined Amc 1. I will keep the invacom on the 4' dish for now but I have 2 others that I ordered today and then I will make my final decision.

[cpr43]

Photos??

[Costactc]

I didn't figure on actually taking photos Carlos. I'll take some pics when the other 2 lnb arrive for testing.

[77ta]

Interesting info Costactc. Wish you had an avenger 321pll to compare since that is what I use.

[Costactc]

I'm using a 321 lnb as a side feed on my 8' dish. I have an inverto black ultra coming from the UK and an L104 Single Output Universal - Amiko as well.

[el bandido]

I appreciate Costa taking the time to test these lnbs and post the results. It takes a lot of time to do this!

I do not see enough difference between the first 3 lnbs that were tested to make any difference.
Satellite signals may get a bit stronger or a bit weaker in the amount of time it takes to change a lnb. A lnb is designed to work over a wide frequency range, so it is not surprising for me to see lnb A perform a bit better than lnb B at a given frequency.
The difference of a db or two in SNR is not much either. For example, if you are watching a ku channel that has a 14 db SNR, you will lose the signal on that channel at about the same time as a 16db SNR signal when it starts raining.

The lnbs that most of us use for fta are cheaply made in China The actual production cost of these lnbs is probably under a dollar. The performance of these cheap lnbs can vary by a good bit, even if the lnbs are of the same make and model.

I see pll lnbs as nothing but sales hype. Dish Network and Direct tv use dro lnbs. If there was an advantage to a pll lnb then the networks would use them!
PLL lnbs may have a slight advantage on skinny signals or transponders with symbol rates below 1500, but the professional lnb manufactures will tell you that the pll lnb has no real advantage over a dro lnb unless the signal being received is narrow.

Invacom snh-031
Amc 6- 12053- 13.7 db 6,890 5/6
G17- 12010- 16.1 db 11,574 3/4 DVB-S
Amc 1- 11840- 10.4 db 30,000 5/6 8psk


Jsc322-2
Amc 6- 13.9db
G17- 16.0 db
Amc 1- 9.9 db

Titanium pll-1ks
Amc 6- 13.5 db
G17- 14.8 db
Amc 1- 11.7 db


bsc321sp
Amc 6- 12.2 db
G17- 13.4 db
Amc 1- 7.3 db


Invacom twf-031
Amc 6- 12.4 db
G17- 13.6 db
Amc 1- 8.6 db

[Costactc]

The Amiko premium L-104 lnb arrived today and getting her ready to test out and just waiting on the Inverto black to arrive from the UK:





OUTPUTS 1
NOISE FIGURE 0.5 dB
REFLECTOR TYPE Offset
CLAMP SIZE 40mm
INPUT FREQUENCY
10.7GHz ~ 11.7GHz (Low Band)
11.7GHz ~ 12.75GHz (High Band)

OUTPUT FREQUENCY
950MHz ~ 1950 MHz (Low Band)
1100MHz ~ 2150 MHz (High Band)

HIGH BAND SWITCH 22KHz (+/-4KHz)
LO FREQUENCY
9.75 GHz (Low Band)
10.60 GHz (High Band)

OPERATING TEMPERATURE -40ºC ~ +60ºC
OPERATING VOLTAGE 13V (VER) / 18V (HOR)
CURRENT DRAW
110mA (max.)



8879 8880 8881

[Costactc]

I have to totally agree with my colleague EB on variables when testing out different lnbs. The results that I achieved with my invacom are not indicative as to the results today, a bit windy here today which probably has a major effect. The L-104 results:

Amc 6- 12.8 db

Galaxy 17- 14.8 db

Amc 1- 11.2 db

[Costactc]

The last of the lnbs that I will be testing just arrived from the UK. The black inverto:


Product Specifications
draw

Low Band Input Frequency Range 10.7 ~ 11.7 GHz
Low Band Output Frequency Range 950 ~ 1950 MHz
Low Band LO Frequency 9.75 GHz
High Band Input Frequency Range 11.7 ~ 12.75 GHz
High Band Output Frequency Range 1100 ~ 2150 MHz
High Band LO Frequency 10.6 GHz
Noise Figure 0.2 dB Typ. (0.7dB Max.)
LO Initial Accuracy +/- 1.0 MHz Max.
LO Temperature Drift +/- 3.0 MHz Max.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Conversion Gain 60 dB Min.
Gain Ripple (Over 26MHz Bandwidth) +/- 0.75 dB
Gain Variation (Over Full Band) +/- 4 dB Max.
Image Rejection 40 dB Min.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Cross Polarization Isolation 22 dB Min.
Control Signal Ca (Vertical Polarization) 11.0 ~ 14.0 V
Control Signal Cb (Horizontal Polarization) 16.0 ~ 20.0 V
Control Signal Cc (Band Switching) 22 +/- 4 kHz
Output VSWR 2.0 : 1
In-Band Spurious - 60 dBm Max.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Operating Temperature - 30 °C ~ + 60 °C
Output Impedance 75 Ω
Output Connector F-Type (Female)
Weight 151 g


89108911

[Costactc]

It's cloudy and raining so I really cannot do a comparison with the black inverto but I would have to say that its readings are a bit disappointing. I will retest on a clearer day. For now, I have the Amiko premium L-104 as my feed.

[Costactc]

Finally found the time and a clear day to test the 3 out and make a final decision. The black inverto ultra beats both the invacom and amiko on every satellite except Galaxy 17 where its db level is 2.0 less then the other 2. The inverto was better on all other sats and will become my permanent ku feed:


892989308931

[eastof111]

Thanks for the tests.... I've read on some of the Euro forums basically the same good points with the Inverto. The MTI seems another one that might be good, but avoid the Mti High line (AP8-TZN2R). Here is a site doing some comparisons.....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Don't remember which site I saw this ops comments,


"I did a test on 10 714/H/22000 (C4 on 2E) earlier this year: Invacom QDF 031 0.3 dB (8.7 dB Snr) the most stable V + H TP however Mti AP8-XT2 0.6 dB (8.9 dB Snr) slighly better V TP and Inverto Ultra Quad (8.7 dB Snr) and Mti AP82-TW (8.7 dB Snr) Mti AP82-T2FBL Supreme (8.7 dB Snr) Absolute worse was Mti High line (AP8-TZN2R 8.2 dB Snr) the most expensive Mti LNBF ..."

Here are some pixs of MTI... and the AP8-XT2 on a dish with a homemade feed.

[Costactc]

Used an MTI lnb about 14 years ago when I lived in Europe with great success. They don't come cheap...20 Euros is quite steep for a single.

[ViP3R]

Finally found the time and a clear day to test the 3 out and make a final decision. The black inverto ultra beats both the invacom and amiko on every satellite except Galaxy 17 where its db level is 2.0 less then the other 2. The inverto was better on all other sats and will become my permanent ku feed:


892989308931

Nice! I just ordered today..since my invacom is pretty heavy for my cheap dish..lol

I'll let you know how it works for me..

[Costactc]

Nice! I just ordered today..since my invacom is pretty heavy for my cheap dish..lol

I'll let you know how it works for me..

You won't regret it my friend, it's a solid feed and giving me excellent results across the arc. I'd invest in another for my side feed on the 8' solid but I have too many.

[ViP3R]

You won't regret it my friend, it's a solid feed and giving me excellent results across the arc. I'd invest in another for my side feed on the 8' solid but I have too many.

Should be about a week and half I would guess to get here..35 cnd with shipping..if it's very good I may have a contact to get them cheaper and possibly pop some in the store.

[rrob311]

I am in the market for a few as I damaged my main one mowing the lawn. I still haven't bought a new one and I have a 5+ bracket for my dish that I have not setup yet. I am definitely willing to try one of these out.

[Costactc]

Should be about a week and half I would guess to get here..35 cnd with shipping..if it's very good I may have a contact to get them cheaper and possibly pop some in the store.

It took almost 2 weeks to get here as well. These lnbs would be an excellent addition to the store if you could buy in bulk because shipping basically doubles the price. I also noticed that most avid dxers in Europe are using them.


I am in the market for a few as I damaged my main one mowing the lawn. I still haven't bought a new one and I have a 5+ bracket for my dish that I have not setup yet. I am definitely willing to try one of these out.

Can't go wrong Rob.

[el bandido]

IMO, probably all of the lnbs mentioned in this thread are good or decent lnbs. The prime focus lnbs should be used for that style of dish.

What works good or the best for one dish may not perform as well on another brand or type of dish. These ku lnbs have a set, non-adjustable feedhorn so you cannot adjust the focal distance like you can on most c band lnbs. This adjustment is not as critical at ku band frequencies, but it would help to have this adjustment for fine tuning ku lnbs.
Sliding a long neck lnb up and down in the lnb feed holder Does Not adjust the focal distance on a lnb with a fixed scalar ring.
On a 1.2 meter dish, a larger diameter feedhorn seems to work a bit better than any of the small feedhorn lnbs mentioned in this thread. I am running a 1.2 meter offset for ku and I think all of the lnbs mentioned here were not really designed for that size of dish. I suspect they were designed for the 65 to 80cm dishes, and that is why they have a smaller feedhorn.

The difference between my best small feedhorn lnbs and the larger feedhorn lnb is a db or two in SNR. All that signal increase gives me is some weaker transponders in clear weather.

The SNR difference between my 1.2 and 1.8 meter dishes with the best lnbs I have for them installed is 1 to 3 db, depending on where and what the signal is. Overall, the 1.8 meter dish performs a slight bit better than the 1.2 meter dish, and this is to be expected.
The 1.8 meter dish stops receiving ku signals at almost identical time to the 1.2 meter dish in heavy rain,and the 1.8 meter dish only gets a couple of transponders that the 1.2 meter cannot get. This is why I do not get too excited when I see tests of one lnb outperforming another lnb by 1 or 2 db in SNR. Granted, it is always best to know which lnb performs the best on a given dish, but a gain of 1 or 2 db in SNR will go unnoticed on most signals that are up there. For Dxing, and scanning, it helps to have every bit of extra signal strength that you can get! But for watching tv on a strong or moderately weak transponders, a gain of 1 or 2 db in SNR will go mostly unnoticed. EB

[Costactc]

IMO, probably all of the lnbs mentioned in this thread are good or decent lnbs. The prime focus lnbs should be used for that style of dish.

What works good or the best for one dish may not perform as well on another brand or type of dish. These ku lnbs have a set, non-adjustable feedhorn so you cannot adjust the focal distance like you can on most c band lnbs. This adjustment is not as critical at ku band frequencies, but it would help to have this adjustment for fine tuning ku lnbs.
Sliding a long neck lnb up and down in the lnb feed holder Does Not adjust the focal distance on a lnb with a fixed scalar ring.
On a 1.2 meter dish, a larger diameter feedhorn seems to work a bit better than any of the small feedhorn lnbs mentioned in this thread. I am running a 1.2 meter offset for ku and I think all of the lnbs mentioned here were not really designed for that size of dish. I suspect they were designed for the 65 to 80cm dishes, and that is why they have a smaller feedhorn.

The difference between my best small feedhorn lnbs and the larger feedhorn lnb is a db or two in SNR. All that signal increase gives me is some weaker transponders in clear weather.

The SNR difference between my 1.2 and 1.8 meter dishes with the best lnbs I have for them installed is 1 to 3 db, depending on where and what the signal is. Overall, the 1.8 meter dish performs a slight bit better than the 1.2 meter dish, and this is to be expected.
The 1.8 meter dish stops receiving ku signals at almost identical time to the 1.2 meter dish in heavy rain,and the 1.8 meter dish only gets a couple of transponders that the 1.2 meter cannot get. This is why I do not get too excited when I see tests of one lnb outperforming another lnb by 1 or 2 db in SNR. Granted, it is always best to know which lnb performs the best on a given dish, but a gain of 1 or 2 db in SNR will go unnoticed on most signals that are up there. For Dxing, and scanning, it helps to have every bit of extra signal strength that you can get! But for watching tv on a strong or moderately weak transponders, a gain of 1 or 2 db in SNR will go mostly unnoticed. EB


What would you suggest or recommend EB for a 1.2m dish?

[el bandido]

I would suggest trying a Raven Feedhorn to get the maximum out of a 1.2 meter dish. You should already have a lnb that will work with it

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Costactc]

I would suggest trying a Raven Feedhorn to get the maximum out of a 1.2 meter dish. You should already have a lnb that will work with it

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Aren't those feedhorns normally used for prime focus dishes rather then offset?

[Costactc]

I had a look at the UK sat store for offset feedhorns. Ouch...60 pounds plus shipping. I have the invacom twf-031 flange which would work with that type of feedhorn. What do you think of the Gibertini feedhorn, which is a bit less costly:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Costactc]

I found a thread from a forum across the pond where a member was using the raven feedhorn and tested it out against a gibertini and ended up slapping a black inverto ultra on his 1.5m dish with better results:


This is a follow on from a discussion on the old forum about the best setup for a Gibertini op-150 dish. I have been using a Andrews/Raven feedhorn to good effect but a contributor, Caz, reckoned he got a better result with the Gibertini feedhorn which is designed for the dish. I went ahead a bought the latter on e-bay and yesterday I tried it. It’s hard to quantify (-0.1/2 db on strenth) but I’d say the result were the same or slightly worse on 2F signals (C5 and C4 HD).


I changed back to the Andrews feedhorn and it was definitely slightly better for me. However, a couple of weeks ago I changed back to the Inverto Black Ultra single and got a massive 1 db increase in signal strength

I have the inverto on my 1.2m dish and just wonder if a feedhorn anad its expense is actually worth it.

[el bandido]

I have not tested the Gibertini, but I would expect similar results as the Raven from it.
I do not regret buying the Raven piece though. I have an Invacom behind the Raven, and do not worry about testing lnbs for Ku anymore because I know there is precious little if anything at all to gain.

[sadass]

Just wondering if i should switch from a standard(10750) lnb to a univeral, somewhat relocated the dish so now i can get from 30w to 125w, i receive 30w but nothing else till 72w

[el bandido]

I have the inverto on my 1.2m dish and just wonder if a feedhorn anad its expense is actually worth it.
A very good question and you will have to pay to find the answer to it. Also, like I said earlier, an increase of 1db in SNR will not do much if anything for you except on the extreme weakest signals. You and i both haave purchased and tried many different ku lnbs. I have found what I consider to be the maximum combination for my 1.2 meter dish, and I do not plan to buy anymore test lnbs for it. If I need more signal, then I will get a much bigger dish.


Just wondering if i should switch from a standard(10750) lnb to a univeral, somewhat relocated the dish so now i can get from 30w to 125w, i receive 30w but nothing else till 72w

Depends on what you are wanting to do. There is not much use for the universal lnb above 61 West unless you can receive 78 West. I have seen universal transponders at 116.8 west before, but that did not last long. I am located close to the East Coast of the U.S. so I can get some of the Atlantic satellites. IMO, it is better to have an universal type lnb and not need it than to miss something. You can run an universal with a 10600 l.o. setting if you turn 22KHz On. using the 10600 and 22KHz On setting will give you very similar results in scan speed as compared to a standard lnb with a 10750 l.o. setting.

[Costactc]

Just wondering if i should switch from a standard(10750) lnb to a univeral, somewhat relocated the dish so now i can get from 30w to 125w, i receive 30w but nothing else till 72w

West of 30w there are only 3 open channels that require a universal lnb(2 at 45w and 1 at 50w) and of course on Simon Bolivar at 78w. I always like to make sure to be able to scan everything possible in, whether I watch it or not.

[Costactc]

I bit the bullet and ordered the Gibertini feedhorn which will be used with my invacom twf-031 lnbf, I will be using the black inverto on my new 90cm dish install that will be attached to my 10' bud pole:

This is the Gibertini C120 Feed horn for offset focus dishes

Made by Gibertini but will fit all dishes C120 LNB's give better resistance to cross polarity interference and therefore can perform better than a standard LNB

- FAQ -

The Gibertini dishes f/D is 0.67 - but if the f/D ratio of your Prime focus or offset dish is between 0.6 and 0.7 then this feedhorn is the right shape to give optimum performance

Using this Feedhorn with your Gibertini OP125 or OP150 you will get optimum performance from all components the LNB and the dish surface and this combination will give you better performancce than virtually any alternative

In addition when you buy and use Gibertini Dishes you are buying durability - because Gibertini dishes are precision made from materials which do not alter in any measurable way over a 10 year period


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[chifut]

On 34w there are couple interesting Europian news chns oh the universal side ..

[Costactc]

On 34w there are couple interesting Europian news chns oh the universal side ..

We are both located in Cornwall so 34w is completely out of our range on ku.