Titanium Satellite C2PLL: Where's The Beef?

[el bandido]

Recently a friend of mine had his c band dish destroyed in an accident. He decided to loan me his C2PLL while he looks for a replacement dish. Much has been written about the C2PLL lnb by the manufacturer and by the people that are selling it. I will test and evaluate the C2PLL lnb as time permits, but have agreed to return the lnb when the owner has use for it again.

The C2PLL is advertised to weigh 10.1 ounces. At least 3 ounces of this weight is for the heat sink.
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The C2PLL lnb weighs about the same or even a little bit less than other c band lnbs once the heavy heat sink has been removed.
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The heavy heat sink is totally useless because it is not connected to anything. The big heat sink only covers a hole.
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I have disassembled a lot of electronic equipment and my fair share of computers. This is the first time I can remember removing a heat sink that was not physically coupled or connected to something that needed the heat removed.
I find the C2PLL lnb case to be no better or worse than any of my other c band lnbs. The extra weight or Beef in the C2PLL lnb is in the form of a useless heat sink!

[eastof111]

Always wondered if the heat sink actually contributed to the performance of the lnb or the marketing aspect.

[Costactc]

Even if the heatsink actually worked, what's the reasoning or purpose of it?

[el bandido]

From The Manufacturer or Importer:

The natural color aluminum cooling fins also assist in dissipating heat from the electronics and body mass resulting in a lower operating temperature with increased performance.

I translate all of that to mean the heat sink is only there to impress you and to make you want to buy the lnb. Nothing more & Nothing less.

[chewie]

Test the theory, make a plastic cover to cover the hole where the heatsink goes, get some signal readings, put the heatsink back and see if the signal is less or better.
Regards.
Chewie

[el bandido]

It would be easier to just remove the heat sink and run without it for a while and see what happens.
If the heat sink was that important then you would not make the same lnb and charge 15 dollars less when the heat sink is not included.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]!/C1PLL-lite-Wideband-C-band-LNBF-3-4-4-2GHz/p/33459515/category=6743545

The C1PLL™ lite series of Phase Lock Loop C-band LNBFs provide performance without the price tag. Want the development expertise, excellent performance and customer support provided with Titanium Satellite products? Introducing performance on a budget! The C1W-PLL™ lite has all the performance and a lifetime warranty like its big brother, the C1WPLL™, but in a light cast waterproof case with standard hardware.

I bet his lite lnb weighs about the same as the C2 with the heat sink removed. The case of the C2 is already as thin or thinner than other c band lnbs.

[rrob311]

It would be fun to do some tests with this. A regular lnb usually has a white cover. White does a great job at reflecting heat. In direct sunlight which lnb would absorb more heat? Then another test where a black nosecone is installed say in 100+ degree weather.

[eastof111]

My guess is that the aluminum ribbed piece of metal exposed to direct sunlight will absorb more heat than it actually dissipates. In my neck of the woods, flat roofs are painted white versus silver. When touched, the silver coating will actually hurt when touched versus the white paint which will be warm to fairly hot.

[el bandido]

The easiest way to make a c band lnb operate cooler would be to put a cover on it. Almost all of the older c band dishes had covers for the lnbs but not many people use them anymore. C band lnb heat is not really an issue.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The C2PLL lnb will be tested against a Pauxis dual lnb. The Pauxis has been on my dish for about two years and I have been very pleased with its performance. Information on the Pauxis and how it is wired into my antenna system can be found in the above link.

The Pauxis lnb weighs about 8 ounces, and the case of this lnb is equal to or better than the case of the C2PLL lnb.
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The Pauxis has been removed from the dish and the C2PLL lnb has been installed. So far, the C2PLL has not performed any better or any worse than the Pauxis. I was able to install the C2 and not have to rescan any channels. I have swapped lnbs several times and had to rescan due to the lnb finding transponders at slightly different frequencies.

Separation between the two lnb ports on the C2PLL is good.

[el bandido]

Open the cover of a dro c band lnb and you will see a tuning slug for the lnb l.o. frequency. Material is placed on top in an attempt to cut down on vibrations which can cause the l.o. frequency of the lnb to drift or move.
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This cover and cavity is not needed for a pll lnb.

Pictured below is the cover for a WSI lnb. Carefully read the information on the cover and you can see that lies are common in the lnb industry for homeowners.
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This lnb cover can probably be used on the C2PLL lnb.

[el bandido]

I also noticed that there are no FCC certifications for this C2PLL lnb even though it is required to have certification. In the past, Brian Gohl, owner of Titanium Satellite has made a big deal about satellite products Not Having FCC certifications attached to the product. I have looked at his current inventory and do not see a single product that has FCC certification marks. I guess some people will do anything to bash the competition.

I have selected satellites at 116.8 and 55.5 West for testing the C2PLL lnb. Professional lnb manufacturers tell us that a PLL type lnb will not have much if any advantage over a DRO type lnb for most of the satellite signals that we receive. Titanium satellite claims huge advantages for the PLL lnb. We will see who is right.

Attached are some test scans that were done on 116.8 and at 55.5 West today. I have been able to spend the time needed to optimize the C2PLL to my 7.5 ft. or 2.3 meter dish. My plan for tomorrow will be to scan the same two satellites in the morning and in the evening. Then continue this routine for a few days. Next, change lnbs and repeat the process. Doing this should give me some idea as to how these two lnbs compare.

[ViP3R]

Interesting thread EB,

Looking forward to more results..The FCC thing shows the integrity of a persons character while preaching about lack of certificates on other sites about other products.

I guess the dollar is the evil in this case.

[eastof111]

"I also noticed that there are no FCC certifications for this C2PLL lnb" The FCC probably hasn't followed the money trail to warrant the enforcement of their own Part 15 rule. But then again, the certification may be pending.... LOL!!

[el bandido]

Transponder signal width for the C2PLL lnb is about identical to the Pauxis DRO lnb, which was identical to the 242 lnb that e Pauxis replaced.

The C2PLL shows the 3968 transponder to be about 8 MHz wide at 116.8 West
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The C2PLL shows the 3920 transponder to be about 20 MHz wide at 105 West.
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[el bandido]

I finished my last blindscan of the C2PLL lnb tonight. The results have been logged using a TBS5925 device and its supporting software.

C2PLL blindscans using my Duo2 fta receiver have not been real impressive, but they have not been bad either. They closely resemble or are equal to blindscans that have been done using the Pauxis lnb.

The Duo2 and some of my other receivers will find and log weak transponders during a blindscan but you will not have a signal on them when they are scanned. This is normal and it does not reflect an extra sensitive receiver tuner or lnb. A blind scan is looking for satellite signals that are not known to the receiver. The receiver may exhibit some extra sensitivity during a blindscan and log transponders that are below the value needed to display a picture.

On the other hand, the TBS5925 will log any transponder that has a signal the TBS5925 can recognize. This is the main reason I prefer to use the TBS5925 when testing signal strength.

Hopefully sometime tomorrow I can swap the C2PLL for the Pauxis and start repeating the three days of scans that were done using the C2PLL lnb.

[el bandido]

I should be finished with the Pauxis scans in two more days. Looking at the information I have already is enough to make my eyes bleed.

Attached are screenshots of a couple of XML scan logs. You can decide who the winner is between these two or if there is a winner at all.

I will post all xml scan logs when finished.

[el bandido]

The 3 Days of scanning each lnb is complete.
I see no clear winner, but the files are attached for you to decide.
The Pauxis will stay on my C band dish, and the C2PLL will be returned to its rightful owner.

My impression of the Titanium C2PLL lnb is nothing above average. I feel that it should have done better when compared with a two year old DRO lnb.
The C2PLL is more about Hype and Sales Pitch than performance.
The C2PLL heatsink is useless and it makes no sense at all for it to be installed the way it is. The C2PLL would be better with just a normal cover because the heavy heatsink upsets the balance of the lnb. EB

[el bandido]

Interesting to see Geosat have a C2PLL lnb. It costs less money than the Titanium C2PLL, and the Geosat C2PLL has more realistic specs.

[el bandido]

Saw an ad in Telesat where The Titanium Pll lnb was tested against another lnb. I do not see this test as being anything close to fair because (1) The reference lnb was a dual lnb where the Titanium was a single, and (2) The reference lnb did not have the same feed horn as the Titanium lnb. Looks like the only way the Titanium lnb can win big in a test is to cheat or to be tested by Brian or somebody else that is selling them.

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[Costactc]

Will start adding to this thread as I bit the bullet and ordered the dual to test on my 10' bud and will further test the single on my 8' solid.

[el bandido]

So far, my C2 tests have shown some signals to be a bit stronger while some are a bit weaker as compared to an older DRO lnb. It will be interesting to see if you get the same results.

[Costactc]

I decided to change my c band lnbf today on my 8' solid which is circular dedicated. I tested out several lnbf and I finally decided to slap on the bsc 422 as signal quality was the highest of the 5 I was testing. I had the dish parked on Ses 6 at 40.5w on the channel Rt USA. What was really odd was that my titanium c1 produced signal quality for a split second and then I couldn't get it to pick it up again after that- I guess it's not too circular friendly. I will be testing the titanium c2 lnbf when it arrives this week on my 10' bud and only linear.


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[el bandido]

Be sure to check out 105W before you put the PLL lnb on. I lose 1-2 db on that satellite using a PLL.

[Costactc]

Pll lnbf will only be for testing. If I deem it to outperform my others then I will check signal on all my sats before deciding. I have 3 other dual lnbf that will go head to head with the C2-bsc 422, cl242 and the psi x2 which is my feed at the moment.

[Costactc]

The titanium C2 lnbf arrived so I will start testing all 4 that I mentioned in the previous post:


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[sadass]

Nice, was looking at them for the cband on a small dish, we sure have nice weather to go outside now,

[Costactc]

Nice, was looking at them for the cband on a small dish, we sure have nice weather to go outside now,

No kidding. The temp in my living room last night got to 30c(86f) which was almost unbearable and it's supposed to be even warmer today- bit the bullet and started the a/c.

[sadass]

same here, my thermostat said 81, don't have central air so i got the window unit in. i did not miss the noise , but the cold air ,,,, what a treat..

[el bandido]

Nice, was looking at them for the cband on a small dish, we sure have nice weather to go outside now,

Here is the same lnb in a different case and without the useless heatsink.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Sorry about that. Keyboard issues..


Likes el bandido, Costactc liked this post
Kiss My Ass el bandido You Kissed My Ass for this post
Thanks

[Costactc]

Here is the same lnb in a different case and without the useless heatsink.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Sorry about that. Keyboard issues..


I have one of those geosat lnbfs in my garage. If you really want to test it out, I have 3 extra c band lnbf that I'm not using.

[el bandido]

Thanks but I already have a Geosat C2.
For me, the Geosat C2 performs exactly the same as the Titanium C2. Brian Gohl is the biggest con artist and Hustler for putting that useless heat sink on the Titanium lnb. If that fancy heat sink had been installed under the lnb connectors instead of being used as an air cover, it might have done a tiny bit of good.

[Costactc]

Thanks but I already have a Geosat C2.
For me, the Geosat C2 performs exactly the same as the Titanium C2. Brian Gohl is the biggest con artist and Hustler for putting that useless heat sink on the Titanium lnb. If that fancy heat sink had been installed under the lnb connectors instead of being used as an air cover, it might have done a tiny bit of good.

Sorry EB, I meant if Sadass was interested as we live in the same city.

[Costactc]

Today is the day, testing:

psi x2
bsc 422
titanium c2
cl-242

[Costactc]

Mixed results today. The titanium c2 was outperformed by the other 3 lnbf. The bsc422 and cl2 were neck to neck on most sats and in the end I left my psi x2 lnbf as my main c band feed.

[el bandido]

The PLL lnbs do not have any REAL advantage over DRO lnbs on the satellite signals that we receive.

[Titanium]

Hello El Bandido,

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I invest in producing new products that do not exist in our hobby. While other distributors are leaving the industry or downsizing their product offering, I decided to invest in new high quality and long-lasting products rather than relabel the same off-the-shelf OEM products. After selling the C-band PLL LNBs for nearly two years, we are finally about make a profit on the PLL development investment.

Just a brief paragraph about the C-band PLL LNBFs. PLL LNBs perform similar to DRO LNBs on strong and fat transponders. The PLL performance is best observed on narrow bandwidth or threshold signals. While each LNBF model balances the performance across the band to provide what is viewed by the developer as optimal performance, I have done my best to provide a unique product that offers a stable, yet cost effect solution provide reliable reception of weak and threshold signals. I would have preferred to cast the body with fins, but the factory could not provide an economical way to produce the design. During prototype testing, we found that by replacing the traditional cover plate with the cooling fin cover, we could reduce the operating temperature. You are correct, the fins are best positioned so they are in the shade of the body (rotate the body 180 degrees to place the fins on the bottom) or installed inside a white color feedhorn cover with good ventilation. When installed with an ambient temperature below 120 degrees F, the cooling fins reduced the operating cavity temperature by a minimum of 10%. The lower the ambient temperature, the more efficient the fins.

If I am not developing and distributing a quality and reliable product that provides a great experience, I am evidently doing something wrong! Please email or call me to discuss current products and future development. I really value and appreciate input!

[el bandido]

II do not see any benefit from installing a heat sink in the way you have chosen and consider it nothing more than a con to trick people into thinking they are buying something with a higher performance.

I have never seen a heat sink used to cool air. Fans are used to cool air.
You are saying the purpose of the heat sink is to lower internal air temperature, and at 120 degrees F, the temperature is reduced by 10 percent using the heat sink? How much performance gain is there when a lnb is operating at 120 degrees when compared to 108 degrees? How much does the internal air temperature Rise when the heat sink is exposed to direct sunlight???
A well designed insulated lnb cover would do a much better job at lowering lnb temperature in the daytime and hot weather than a metal heat sink sitting in the sun that is coupled to nothing.

For a heat sink to be effective, it has to be coupled to something that produces heat. It cannot be expected to add any heat reduction benefit if it is installed against dead air and is further isolated from the lnb body by a rubber seal. The majority of the heat generated by a lnb will be noticed at the connectors. Installing a heat sink under the connectors would dissipate some heat, but it would be questionable whether enough heat was dissipated to show a noticeable gain in lnb performance. Again, a well designed insulated lnb cover will do more to lower heat than installing a heat sink on an isolated cover.

I do not see any marked difference in performance in your Titanium C2 lnb as compared to your Geosat C2 lnb. Both of these lnbs perform almost identical on my dish system, and I would prefer your Geosat C2 version over the Titanium C2 version due to the lnb body design.

I also do not see any marked difference when comparing both of your C2 lnbs to an older Pauxis DRO lnb. Granted, some signals are stronger on the C2 lnbs when compared to the Pauxis, but other signals are also weaker on the C2 lnbs when compared to the Pauxis. (These discrepancies are common when comparing any group of similar designed antennas.)

[Titanium]

I am sorry that you view me as a con artist! I run my business with integrity and try to provide innovative products and help hobbyists as much as possible. I do speak openly about the BS in the industry and this can sit wrong with some. You may not be aware, but since September of 2013 I have not been a participating owner of Satellite AV. I sold the company and started Titanium Satellite. I did not develop the GEOSATpro C2 Phase Lock Loop for Satellite AV. There is a reason that both C1 and C2 PLL LNBFs operate similarly.... The GEOSATpro LNBs were copies of the Titanium PCBs and were being sold at unusually low margins and with no development costs. The GEOSATpro C1 and 2 Phase Lock Loop LNBFs are no longer being sold via resellers, Ebay, Amazon, etc due to infringement issues with Titanium products. The issue has been resolved by their agreement to remove them from the wholesale/reseller market.

If you are distracted by the 3.3 ounce cooling fins (vs a 1.4 ounce cover plate) and want a great low price, we do offer a single output model, the C1W-PLL "lite". We may offer a dual output "lite" model in the future, but I wanted to recapture the initial development costs before expanding the product line.

Yes, cooling fins would be more efficient if cast into the body. As this would have required multi-step molding process with extensive machining, the unit cost would have been quite high. The thermal bonding to the body is via the screws and via the air exposure in the the PCB cavity. The rubber gasket is necessary to waterproof the housing and a thermal paste would not be applicable. If a minimum 10% reduction in cavity temperature can be obtained by manufacturing with cooling fins, why not add this low cost design addition? What is the down side? We did not test for increased heat transfer via incorrect installation with direct exposure to the sun. We provide instructions with mounting the fins in the shade of the body or in a ventilated feedhorn cover.

The slightly higher product cost has little to do with the .45 cent cooling fins. It is primarily due to the very high development cost of the PLL PCB. Also add in the higher quality components/build materials/accessories and the specification/performance sorting. Now that the initial development investment is covered, I predict that additional products will be developed from the PCBs and we will be able to offer other options that better suit your preferences and needs.

We stand behind our products 100% and offer a lifetime warranty on all LNBFs. If any customer is unsatisfied with the performance of a Titanium Satellite product, we are happy to refund or replace. Thank you for allowing me to respond on the your forum. Please contact me with any questions or comments.

[el bandido]

I asked the original purchaser of this product, about installation instructions. No instructions with mounting the fins in the shade of the body or in a ventilated feedhorn cover were included or provided. Where the cooling fins actually end up will depend on lnb/dish skew, and having the cooling fins exposed to direct sunlight may not be avoided in some applications unless a cover is used.

Air acts like an insulator, and this is why it is critical to attach the heatsink correctly. (More on this below)

Air makes a very effective heat insulator, so for the heat to get from the CPU to the heatsink, the heatsink must be installed without any air gaps whatsoever.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Atlanta has many metal buildings, and I do not see any of these buildings with a hole cut in the side and a piece of aluminum or a giant heatsink attached to these buildings to lower the inside temperature. If your design worked, would not industrial buildings use it? Many industrial buildings will have inside temperatures of 120 degrees or better in the summer. I assure you they would attach heatsinks to the sides of the building if it would lower the inside temperature 5-10 percent.

Example:
Machines that melt plastic to make plastic bottles operate at extremely high temperatures. You cannot install a piece of metal or a heatsink on a wall that this machine is very close to and expect the heat of the machine to be transferred to the heatsink on the wall. This is not realistic because the air acts like an insulator.

[Titanium]

The LNBF installation guide is available for download and we provide the resellers with the link and ask that it is provided on the product listings, invoices and customer communications. Please have your friend contact me for the link if desired. Since the LNBF may be rotated 180 degrees and still set the correct Skew, it is likely that the cooling fins will be able to be placed in the shade of the LNBF body.

LNB(f)s are designed to dissipate heat via the body mass. The cooling fins thermal bond to the body casting via the set screws. The additional surface of the cooling fins assist with dissipating the heat from the cast body.

In regards to the cavity heat exchange, I was only agreeing with you that the air in the cavity was in contact with the back side of the cover like with all LNB(f)s. This likely has very poor thermal transfer and LNB(f)s do not cool the electronics this way. I am not aware of any LNB(f) design that vents the cavity air.

If the cooling fins were attached to a shaded wall and that wall was hotter than the ambient temperature, the cooling fins would provide increased surface to transfer the heat from the hot walls. Engineers usually chose more efficient methods to regulate building temperatures by insulating, increasing or shading the building's mass and typically regulate temperature via air based heat exchange.

[el bandido]

I took the C2 PLL apart and do not see any valid reason for the heatsink. You are applauded if you can find any real decrease in board temperature with this heatsink installed in this manner.

The heatsink is installed around 12 mm from the lnb board. So you have a dead airspace and this airspace acts like an insulator between the board and the heatsink. The heatsink also has a piece of material attached to it that would further insulate it from cooling the board.

One side of the lnb board appears to be almost solid copper, and it is firmly attached to the bottom of the lnb cavity using 7 screws. The lnb board is coupled to the cavity, and the heat from the bottom of the board will radiate into the lnb feedhorn or into the lnb wave guide.

Your Geosat C2 lnb version seems to be a better choice because it is lighter weight when compared to the Titanium C2 lnb and it is totally sealed. The rubber seal on the Titanium lnb which helps insulate the heatsink from the rest of the lnb body will eventually fail and allow water or moisture to be in contact with the lnb board. The Geosat C2 has a sealed housing and I would expect it to last longer than a lnb housing sealed with rubber.

Both of these C2 lnbs are good. They function and seem to have sufficient isolation between the two ports so you can operate multiple receivers at the same time without having receiver to receiver interference. The same cannot be said for all of the dual lnbs I have tested.

Titanium C2 Pictures:

This picture shows the bottom of the lnb cavity
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The copper side of the lnb board is firmly attached to the bottom of this cavity which allows for the transfer of heat from the board to the lnb feedhorn or waveguide



This picture shows the back or bottom side of the lnb board.
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This side is Firmly attached to the bottom of the lnb cavity.
The small amount of heat generated by this board can be transferred to the feedhorn or waveguide area of the lnb.



This picture shows the top or front side of the lnb board
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Looks like there are not many parts installed here that produce a lot of heat. There is also a dead air space of about 12 mm between the board and the giant heatsink.



This picture shows the back of the C2 heatsink
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I have no idea as to why a pad would be attached to the back of a heatsink. It makes no sense at all to me.



here is a better view of the heatsink pad.
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[el bandido]

The Titanium C2 lnb is described in advertising as having a heavy aluminum casting. The empty Titanium C2 casting weighs in at 6 ounces. In a comparison, the empty WSI DMX casting weighs in at 8 ounces. Granted, 2 ounces is not a whole lot, but it is a considerable percentage of 6 ounces.

Empty Titanium casting
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Empty WSI DMX 242 casting
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[Titanium]

Thanks for the C2-PLL tear down. Good photos and noticing the typical thermal bonding to the mass. The board does get quite hot if it is not attached to the casting. In past design projects for earlier KU products, I measured a PLL PCB laying on the bench at 140F (in average 72 degree ambient room temperature).

The pad is recommended for RF control in the cavity by the RDA design specs and is found in most if not all LNBFs. We did not test without the pad inserted in the cavity as the frequency response and gain flatness was as spec'd and without harmonics.

Highly doubtful that a grooved, seated and fastened rubber seal betwen two flat plates will fail. This type of rubber seal is utilized by most LNB PCB cavity fastener seating for the past 30+ years. I have done residential and commercial install / tech calls since the early 80's and cant recall a failed rubber ring on a LNB PCB cavity. But if you are right, the C1-PLL has a lifetime warranty, moisture or water intrusion via the factory seal would be a covered event.

The reference to our LNBFs having a heavy casting is bin comparisson to the typical housing on an off-the-shelf LNBF. I really like the fact that the C1/C2-PLL feedhorn does not deform as easily when securing to a scalar as on many LNBF designs. I also selected this particular housing so the skew makings could be placed in alignment to the vertical probe and we could stamp +/-45 degrees instead of the typical +/-30 and often incorrectly referenced to the horizontal probe.

Thank you for the compliment! Always have been attentive to the port isolation. This comes from me working in the real world and not locked away in a lab. It used to be such a frustration at multi-receiver installs when the connection of two or more STBs to a dual output LNBF and they would interfere with each other and drop transponders.

Thanks again for your attention to this project! Would you like a C1-PLL or C1-PLL lite to test and compare?

[el bandido]

I think the build quality of the titanium C2 lnb board is better than the WSI 242.

The build date of the WSI 242 board is 4-23-2008, and this lnb was working, but the separation of the two lnb ports was not good and caused interference when multiple receivers were connected to it. I have found this problem in several brands of dual c band lnbs.

The Titanium lnb board appears to be copper, while the WSI board is silver or an alloy with a silver color. More care seems to have been given when installing the parts on the Titanium board. I see some extra solder on the WSI board which I do not like.

It took a good bit of time to test these products, and I am not in a position to do any more lnb tests right now. Maybe I will do some more at some point in the future, but I think overall, the best way to improve the signal is not by changing a healthy lnb, but by making the dish or the reflector bigger.

I have also thought about swapping the cases on some lnb boards and send them out to some people to test. I think if you put a dro board inside a pll lnb case, or a pll board inside a dro case and ask people to test them, you would see some astonishing results!

Below are some pictures that compare the dro and C2 boards. i think the overall build quality of the pll lnb is better than this particular dro lnb.

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[el bandido]

Lnbs that are similar to the Titanium C2 are available direct from China. It will be interesting to see if the performance of these lnbs is equal or similar. It will also be interesting to see if the internal design is the same.

12535

(Purchase date = last night.
Shipping date = this morning.)

[lilla]

well guys the shiny side of aluminum reflect the heat away from the source so if it is facing to the source it does not help the only avantage are the fins and they are aluminum and they are made of it because it is less expensive and the oxide makes them last longer....all given I don't rea....ly know if in this case are a + or minus, sorry just showin-off my knowlege of metallurgy...not of spelling. have a nice week-end----easly confused lilla

[el bandido]

Advertisements show the aluminum heat sink up.
No mounting instructions are given in this advertisement that I see stating the correct way to mount this lnb.


12537

[Titanium]

Thank you for bringing this AliExpress listing to my attention. Anhui Bowei is a production factory involved with our product. We have an agreement that they will not distribute our design, but actions speak louder than agreements.

I am quite sure that you have ordered a product with similar if not identical hardware and performance to our Titanium Satellite branded product. Yes, you may buy directly from a factory in China and save $7, but you do not receive the Titanium Satellite lifetime warranty, telephone / email support, or our free 2-3 day US/VI/PR shipping. I would be happy to provide you with a free sample of the Titanium Model to provide a comparison.

Now that you know about the company and the product origin, it basically comes down to a personal decision. Support a legitimate company's investment in our industry for the research and development to bring these PLL LNBFs into production or to buy a product that was developed under contract and distributed without our permission. China is the wild, wild west of honoring intellectual properties and respecting agreements. While we make every effort to only work with companies that we can trust, some products slip out the back door.

The posted Ebay listing is from a reseller. They have been provided with the link for the installation instructions and are asked to provide to their customers.

I invite you to give me a call anytime, tool-free at 855-200-4373. You are extremely knowledgeable about satellite technology and interested in the PLL LNBFs and I would value talking with you. I feel that there is something that I am not understanding about your attitude to the development of these products. You appear to have invested considerable time and energy into the subject and chip at it from every angle. I honestly don't get it!

Thanks for your time and information! Have a great weekend!

[el bandido]

I always have had mixed results from buying directly from the manufacturer or from China. The cost of the comparable C2 lnb direct from China was about $31.00 with shipping included. It took almost two weeks for the product to arrive. For twenty dollars less, I got a comparable product that took two weeks to ship. This lnb did not include any nuts or bolts, or anything to convert the lnb to circular satellites.

For about 40% less with shipping included, I got a comparable or equal product to the Titanium/Geosat C2 but in a very plain or basic form. The pll lnb from AliExpress performs the same or very similar to the other C2 lnbs I have tested.

Here are a few pictures of the AliExpress pll c band lnb:

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[el bandido]

I have spent some time using the C PLL lnb and find that it works about the same as the C2 PLL. More insulation has been added to the back of the heatsink in the C PLL lnb. How is an insulated heatsink supposed to do anything besides look impressive on the outside?
The circuit board appears to be identical in both lnbs.

12646 12647

I find to date:
Inverto does not offer any PLL lnb
Invacom does not offer any PLL lnb
Dishnet does not use pll lnbs, even the new model is a dro.
Direct TV does not use pll lnbs

A commercial pll circuit board will not look anything like the circuit boards shown in this thread. The commercial pll lnb circuit board will have more parts on it.

I think the Titanium C2 PLL LNB is a good lnb overall, and wold last a long time under normal use, but I feel the price is a bit high. On the other hand, you have a Titanium customer support line which China does not offer.

Titanium may be ale to cut cost by offering the C2 PLL LNB in a plain box or by offering the lnb as a single piece in a plain box without any additional hardware. Many people will already have the scaler ring and other hardware, so nothing would be needed except the lnb. The C band dielectric is only needed for the East Coast in the U.S. If you want to compete directly with China, then do as China does. EB

[eastof111]

Thanks for the comparison.

The ole adage.... you get what you pay for. For newbies, the customer support line will most likely be a beneficial enticement to purchase. Thus, the higher selling price of said item along with other incurred product costs is warranted. Assuming the vendor is selling a product that matches the advertised specs. Plus newbies not having to deal with overseas vendors and hassles.

For die hard testers, going over seas is an experience and many times an enjoyment to see what is different, comparable, hype, lower cost and/or new to what is being offered states side.

[el bandido]

I doubt the specs are accurate on any fta lnb or fta receiver because these so called specs are not independently verified. The specs are whatever the China manufacturer wants them to be OR what you want them to be. They will print anything you ask them to!

[eastof111]

Yup.... just like the Kim Kardashian specs always being advertised. But, once you see her in reality, you wonder what all the hype was about.

[rrob311]

That heatsink sure does look sharp. How about we put it to the test in the Desert. Say somewhere near Vegas. Or the Mojave. Aluminum dishes are painted beige for a reason. If someone with access to a conventional lnb and this one can set them up in direct sunlight and then test the temperature with a laser thermometer I am dying to know what the difference is. We may have to wait a few months until the ideal conditions exist but I can't wait.

I made a solar cooker in 3rd grade for a class project. We used a foil lined umbrella and a tin pan in the center. Ours worked the best LOL.

[Tron 2.0]

I have spent some time using the C PLL lnb and find that it works about the same as the C2 PLL. More insulation has been added to the back of the heatsink in the C PLL lnb. How is an insulated heatsink supposed to do anything besides look impressive on the outside?
The circuit board appears to be identical in both lnbs.

12646 12647

I find to date:
Inverto does not offer any PLL lnb
Invacom does not offer any PLL lnb
Dishnet does not use pll lnbs, even the new model is a dro.
Direct TV does not use pll lnbs

A commercial pll circuit board will not look anything like the circuit boards shown in this thread. The commercial pll lnb circuit board will have more parts on it.

I think the Titanium C2 PLL LNB is a good lnb overall, and wold last a long time under normal use, but I feel the price is a bit high. On the other hand, you have a Titanium customer support line which China does not offer.

Titanium may be ale to cut cost by offering the C2 PLL LNB in a plain box or by offering the lnb as a single piece in a plain box without any additional hardware. Many people will already have the scaler ring and other hardware, so nothing would be needed except the lnb. The C band dielectric is only needed for the East Coast in the U.S. If you want to compete directly with China, then do as China does. EB
I would agree, the Titanium PLL LNBF has been a good half decent LNB for the time I used and experimented with it. The only one small negative I had that somehow insults Brian personally to the core, is that it's performance was half decent for me; I figured I could do better with something else. Last I checked, I thought had that right to do so, it's called "Experimentation" or "Research". Brian's products do not perform badly enough to warrant a return of everything I bought from him; despite his guilt trips in a seperate insulting unwelcome email that maybe I should. I intend to keep the LNBF'S in case I might need a backup or spare to get me by temporarily. I am currently experimenting with GeoSatPro LNBF'S on my C-Band dish for the past few months, and I posted a pic of it here on this forum. But since King Brian decided to take MY same pic and just post it on Sat Guys WITHOUT MY PERMISSION, I am now going to make some major commercial upgrades to my C-Band Dish very soon and just keep it to myself; making that stolen pic very much out of date. Brian, when you continually insult your customers, or potential customers intelligence you will make enemies in business very quickly indeed! For the record Brian, I set up my entire satellite system pretty much all by myself, I did not ask 'you' "hundreds of questions", and you did not help me with ALL of my projects, you have me confused with your other pal Dan Rose. :-) I only asked about one thing or subject, that got blown all out of proportion from everyone else being the sole "Expert". What exactly makes you the ONLY ONE correct Expert on anything?? Why can't anyone else ever have an input or solution or idea to something? Why MUST you always reply to everything to just put someone down and make them feel bad?? What exactly always makes you right, Brian? You just keep barking at it from every angle, I just don't get your screwed up Pride!! :-/ Do I have to remind you AGAIN of the years of experience I've had with small satellite dishes since 2001? I was never a clueless newbie coming into this hobby, give people the benefit of the doubt and credit, if your Pride will ever allow. You are turning people away from this hobby and killing it from the inside out as you upset and frustrate people.

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[el bandido]

I would like Not to turn this thread into attack against the distributor or the developer because doing that usually ends bad for all involved as can be seen here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

As a rule, anything posted on the internet can and will be reused by other people. This includes pictures. I have had many things that I have posted to be reused without my permission. You probably need to mark things are do something else to make them not useful if you do not want things to be reused.

I do not really know what all has gone on between you and Brian, but you are welcome to start a thread about it and explain everything in great detail if you desire. Yourself nor anybody else will not be censored as long as things are kept fairly reasonable. Overall, I am not happy about most things that have been posted about the c2 pll lnb, or any other cheap pll lnb because they simply do not perform anything like a correctly designed pll lnb. A correctly designed pll lnb will require more filters and circuits, which increases the cost of the product by a considerable margin. You will not just change the DRO to PLL and get much improved performance.

To give Brian his due, you have an address and a phone number where he may be contacted. This says a lot when compared to other sellers or distributors who seem to live in a PO Box and do not make enough money to own a telephone. I disagree with a lot of things in this thread, but it is rare to find someone that can participate in negative discussions about their product in a civil manner.

[Titanium]

I apologize if anyone feels that I insult or attack anyone. I certainly love the industry, hobby and having conversations about the technology and entertainment that we are fortunate to enjoy. We learn and grow as hobbyists with experimentation and from communicating our successes and failures with each other. With 35+ years involvement in the satellite industry I have gained some knowledge, but am far from being an expert, let alone "the expert".

Tron 2.0, Where are your personal attacks coming from? I don't recall ever having any negative interactions with you before these recent posts. I never posted your photo on SatGuys, but I did reply to your thread on a different site to assist answering your LNBF question. Once again, I invite you to share any communications that we have ever had. This BS really needs to stop...

I agree with El Bandido's suggestion and would be happy to address in an open forum any issues that you might have with me.

Happy New Year everyone!

[Tron 2.0]

Unfortunately, I won't have time to start any new threads any time soon for anything. So I'm having to just stay off the forums, especially since Bian is on every single one of them anyway. I will just continue to journey down my own path myself.

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