Titanium ASC1 or ASC-1: Read This Before Buying

[el bandido]

The claimed satellite dish lifting power of the Titanium ASC1 Diseqc Positioner is Bogus!

The ASC1 is not capable of producing 36 volts at 5 amps without modifications to the power supply.
Here is one example of the bogus or fictitious claim:
[Only registered and activated users can see links] h


Powerful
Designed with the versatility to control and power both LNBFs, LNBs, pass switch commands and generate or regenerate switching voltages, the ASC1 works on virtually any consumer or commercial system. Packed with the lifting power rated to a maximum of 38Vdc at 5amps, the ASC1 will lift any motorized dish. No other consumer motor controller even comes close to the power provided by the ASC1. The F-fitting port simultaneously provides voltage that is user set to 13/18Vdc, reversed 18/13Vdc, fixed 13Vdc or fixed 18Vdc at 450mA. Our proprietary motor control feature ramps in and out the motor speed at the beginning and end of a motor movement. This minimizes wear and tear on your dish mount and frame. The ramp also allows micro adjustments when fine-tuning the dish positioning. No more speeding past the correct motor landing and having to bump the dish back and forth into position.

On its best day, the ASC1 can only produce about 25 volts dc at 4 amps of current as measured at the back of the ASC1. Why was it decided to use a false higher power rating for the ASC1? That answer is probably simple: The heavy duty big dish actuators require 36 volts at 5 amps for maximum performance. The ASC1 can actually produce 5 amps for a very brief period of time, 5 amps on the ASC1 only has about 20 volts dc coming from the power supply, so the energy or power level at 5 amps (100 watts) on the ASC1 is about the same as 4 amps (100 watts) on the ASC1.

The ASC1 would have been a great product had it actually been able to produce the power of 36 volts dc at 5 amps. But with the dc power supply it has, the satellite dish lifting performance of the ASC1 is equal to or not much better than the VBox line of positioners.

Anyone that has purchased the ASC1 thinking it could produce the power of 36 volts dc at 5 amps has been duped! EB

[el bandido]

I have owned and tested the following dish positioners or dish movers:
Gbox
Vbox
VboxII
Titanium ASC1

Here is the power output I have seen (in watts):
Gbox = 80-90 watts
Vbox = 60-80 watts
VboxII = 60-80 watts
Titanium ASC1 = 80-100 watts

DC Voltage on these positioners vary. Most Gbox or Vbox positioners will start out with 42 volts dc, and will have about 35-36 volts dc at 1 amp current draw. The Titanium ASC1 will have about 32 volts dc at 1 amp current draw. The Gbox and V box will move the actuator a little bit faster at the 1 amp to 1.5 amp current levels, due to the dc voltage being slightly higher. After 2 - 2.5 amps of current draw, the ASC1 moves the actuator faster because it has a higher voltage. The more voltage you have, the faster the actuator will move. This is why I want a positioner that could produce a Solid 36 volts dc at 5 amps of current draw.

A Vbox or Gbox would probably be ok for anyone using a mesh dish up to 3 meters in diameter unless the weather is extremely cold and/or windy.

The Titanium ASC1 should work ok on any satellite dish up to 3.7 meters in size unless the weather is extremely cold or windy. The ASC1 has thermal protection, and would probably be fairly hard to burn up when moving a heavy load. The same cannot be said for the Gbox and Vbox positioners.

A Venture Actuator engineer has told me that their best 36 inch satellite dish actuator can move 1500 pounds at 24 volts dc with 4 amps of current. In theory, a stock ASC1 should be able to move 1500 pounds for a short distance. The majority of consumer satellite dish systems would never see a load like this unless there was a mechanical issue or problem with the dish system, or unless the weather was extremely bad.

My satellite dish actuator is rated for 36 volts at 5 amps of current. This is supposed to be a maximum rating, and I would never expect to see 36 volts at 5 amps being used by my dish system. The higher the voltage, the faster the actuator will move, so I am in the process of buying parts to make the ASC1 actually produce 36 volts dc at 5 amps of current.

There is a lot of extra room inside the ASC1. There is a tremendous amount of room inside the ASC1 if the 110/220 vac transformer is removed and replaced with a 110 vac transformer. The dc voltage of the ASC1 to power the actuator drops almost 50 percent when a 5 amp load is applied. I have seen many complaints about the ASC1 not holding the correct position for the actuator, and I wonder if a dirty or noisy power supply is causing this? It should be noted that I had no problems with my stock ASC1 holding the correct position. A dirty or noisy power supply can cause problems.

Installing a bigger dc power supply for the actuator is easy to do in the ASC1. Remove AC power. Solder a wire to the plus side of the bridge rectifier, and solder another wire to the minus side of the bridge rectifier. Then cut one of the yellow wires on the secondary side of the transformer. Connect the two wires you installed to a good 36 vdc power source and you are done!

It looks like the inside of the ASC1 is big enough to handle an additional dc power supply board, so I will look at modifying the inside of this positioner. External meters for dc voltage and dc amps also need to be installed. The ASC1 should look about the same on the outside once these modifications are made, and I will post in this thread what parts I change, or what parts are used.

Overall the ASC1 is a good unit. It just does not live up to its advertised power rating for the actuator. Now we will move on to fixing where it will hopefully do 36 volts at 5 amps current draw. Success will depend on finding a decent dc power supply that will fit inside the ASC1.

[el bandido]

Actuator Power Supply
Several reasonably priced power supplies are available from EBay. The problems will be: (1) Finding a power supply that will fit or can be made to easily fit inside the ASC1 case, and (2) Finding a supply that will hold 36 volts dc at 5 amps current draw.
I have done a similar actuator power supply mod to a Gbox, and used a 27 volt dc supply for it This supply works very well, and can hold a steady 7 amps of current draw at about 26.6 volts.
I recently purchased a 36 volt dc supply, but it will only produce around 30 volts dc when a small amount (1 amp) or a large amount (5 amps) of current is being drawn.

Replace ASC1 Transformer
The ASC1 transformer has a current rating that is a bit more than a transformer in a Vbox. So in reality, it should be a little bit bigger. But the ASC1 also has provisions to be ran on 220 ac voltage, so this means another 110 vac tap had to be added. This extra tap adds to the size of the ASC1 transformer. Looking at a picture of the ASC1 transformer would make you think the unit has plenty of power for an actuator, but looks can be deceiving. Replacing the stock ASC1 transformer with a smaller one that can still perform the same duties will be the key to adding or installing another power supply inside the ASC1 case.

Here is a picture of the stock ASC1 transformer. The yellow transformer wire is cut, and we are using 110 VAC. The overall size of this transformer can be reduced by a considerable amount, and it will still be able to do the same job it is doing now. Not having to provide power to the actuator will take a tremendous load from this part.

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[el bandido]

I am hoping these parts will work correctly and fit inside the ASC1. Should have plenty of room once the big transformer is replaced.

1 amp, 110 to 24 vac transformer
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36 vdc at 5 amps Power Supply
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[el bandido]

The replacement transformer is supposed to be here tomorrow, and the 36 vdc 5 amp power supply should be here before the weekend.

One other thing that I do not like about the ASC1 is you cannot see the display unless you are very close to the unit. The counts on the Vbox or Gbox can be seen from across a room or across a wide area. To solve this problem, I would like to mount a dc volts, and a dc amps meter on the front of the ASC1. Being able to watch the amps and volts tells you the dish is moving, and also how well it is moving. Pictures of these two meters are attached.


Amp Meter
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Volt Meter
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Both of these meters can easily be seen at a distance.

[el bandido]

The transformer and power supply arrived today.
I am testing the power supply now and am very impressed with it. Several dc volt meters show that it is producing roughly 35.5 volts dc, but the voltage does not change when a load is applied to it. So far I have seen 35.7 volts at 3.4 amps. This was a peak reading that lasted about a second. Voltage and amps readings like this is what I expected from a stock ASC1.

The size of this power supply is very similar to a pack of cigarettes. It should not be any problem installing this supply inside the ASC1. Will continue to test it, but I see no reason right now not to use it. The dish moves at a very nice speed when this power supply is used to move it. The motor speed slows down a good bit when 24-30 volts is used to drive it.

[DaveLH]

I really like your retrofitting ideas with the ASC1. I for one have a similar comment, don't know if the dish is moving. Was thinking of two flashing LED's for E and W movement but the volt and amp indicators give more information and can be seen. In the past have had a problem bringing the dish back if it went to far to the east, had to go out and physically nudge it then it took off.

[el bandido]

Watching the actuator counts change is better than nothing for tracking movement of the dish, but watching the voltage and amps gives a much better idea of how things are working, and if any maintenance is needed. The amount of power needed will vary with the weather, but my dish system only needs 1 or 2 amps most of the time. The dish moves considerably faster at 36 volts compared to the stock ASC1, and the faster movement means less travel time which means less heat. Usually less heat means longer life for the actuator motor and power supply.

If you have time, connect a dc voltmeter to the back of the asc1 and see how many volts you have while the dish moves from one end of the arc to the opposite end of the arc. You may install two meters and have a voltage reading in each direction.
Cheap dc meters are in the link.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[DaveLH]

I connected my Greenlee DM 820 digital meter across the actuator motor terminals and read 32 VDC. Trying to get a picture uploaded.

[el bandido]

My notes say the stock ASC1 will deliver about 1 amp of current at 32 volts dc. My notes also show 37 vdc measured at the ASC1 bridge rectifier without any load. So the voltage on a stock ASC1 drops by a very noticeable amount, even with a small current load.

I have tested this new power supply to 4.5 amps of current at 35.5 volts. That should be more than I will need, so now the task of installing it inside the ASC1 will start.

[DaveLH]

How do you plan on installing the volt, amp meters? I like that idea. Don't seem to be room on the front of the case to make a hole.

[el bandido]

I plan to put the meters under the existing display screen...Or at least that is my first idea for them.

Now I am in the middle of gutting the ASC1 and remolding the inside. The big transformer was extremely hot when I opened the ASC1 case, and I am only using one leg of it. The ASC1 could probably have a streak frying on the inside of it and it would be cool to the touch on the outside due to the design of the case. Heat rises and there is really no place for the heat to go inside the ASC1. The heat has to pool on the top and then find its way out using the side vents. About everyone else uses fans for solid topped cases, or has holes cut in the top so the heat can escape.

[el bandido]

The modifications to the ASC1 are complete. This turned into a pretty lengthy job as I figured it would. Almost everything works the same mounted on the inside of the ASC1 as it did mounted on the outside. The dc power supply has a small dip in voltage at start-up that it did not have before. The dc voltage is rock steady after start-up, so I assume I made a mistake in the ac power wiring. I will check it when the ASC1 case is opened. This power dip is no big deal, and I am in no hurry to fix it because it lasts less than a second and is only a couple of volts dip.

The replacement transformer was mounted to the top, on the inside of the ASC1 case in order to have good room for the new additional power supply board. Removing the original transformer took away a great source of heat, and also gave additional room for the new power supply board. All wires to the 115-220 volt switch on the back of the ASC1 were cut and rerouted. The ASC1 was wired for 220 volt applications which provided a twin set of ac power leads to power the new transformer, and the new additional power supply board.

Digital meters for dc voltage and dc amps were installed on the front of the ASC1. The voltage remains constant, and a meter to monitor voltage could be eliminated. I think the amp meter is a very good addition because it allows a person to see the ASC1 moving the dish from across a large room. A person is clueless as to whether the dish is moving or not in a stock ASC1 because the display cannot be seen except at a very short distance.

A small hole was nibbled in the front panel of the ASC1 to allow the meter wires to be connected. This small hole will need to be enlarged somewhat so the amp meter can be moved closer to the ASC1 case and be attached or mounted to the front of the ASC1. The dc meter is not as bulky on its backside, so only a small hole for the wires is needed for it.

The heavy aluminum case of the ASC1, and the 115 -220 vac wiring made the dc power supply modification much easier. None of this would have been necessary had the ASC1 been designed as the specifications stated. You want the actuator that you paid $400.00 for to be fed with the correct dc voltage. A stock ASC1 can feed a big actuator, but it cannot move a big actuator or really any actuator to its full speed potential.

Modification pictures to follow.

[el bandido]

The stock ASC1 transformer weighed about 4 pounds and seven ounces or about 4.5 pounds. The printed circuit boards and wiring should weigh a little less or about 1 pound, so the total weight of the ASC1 could almost be split evenly between the transformer and the ASC1 case.
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The ASC1 was stripped, then the new power supply board was set inside to see what positions it could be mounted in. Removing the larger stock ASC1 transformer gave more room, but not quite as much as I wanted. So the replacement transformer ended up being mounted to the top of the ASC1 on the inside.
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The new power supply board was mounted next to the existing motherboard. Provisions were made to elevate the new board so air can get underneath it, and so it will not short out on the bottom connections.
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The Original ASC1 motherboard was reinstalled, and provisions for the hall effect dc amp meter were also added.
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The Amp meter and voltage meter were installed to the front of the modified ASC1. A small hole was nibbled in the front plate to allow for the wires, but a larger hole will need to be made for the amp meter to sit flush against the ASC1 case. The large white connector on the back side of the amp meter can be seen in this picture.
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[el bandido]

I am sort of in a "Watch & See" mode at the moment. There are still a few small things to do, but I just want to see how things will hold up right now, and for the next day or two. The front meters need to be mounted, and the 4 main case screws need to be tapped and heli coiled. Two of the main case bolts were never tight, and the other two are not tight now. Stuff like this is common in Chinese manufacturing, and is also common in aluminum products. Installing heli coils is pretty much a permanent fix, but I do not plan on making a career out of assembling and disassembling this item!

Dish moving time from 78 West to 139 West has decreased. It used to take about 1 minute to move this distance using a stock ASC1. Now it takes around 43 seconds to move the same distance. Overall current draw in amps has decreased except sometimes at start-up. It is not uncommon to see the amp meter jump to 3 or 4 amps briefly at start-up if the dish is several degrees from center. This is the way it is supposed to work! The increased actuator speed calls for a larger amount of current to get things moving. Voltage is holding steady at 35.5 volts dc except for the small, unexplained dip at start-up that was mentioned earlier.

[el bandido]

The 3.6 meter dish has been moved many times now since the ASC1 was modified, and I have not had any issues. A Fluke amp meter has shown initial or start-up amps of up to 4.5, which equals to about 160 watts. This power level only exists for around a second, then settles down to around 2 amps, or 70-80 watts when moving long distances. Short dish moves that are made close to center or due south may have an initial burst of 3.5-4 amps, but quickly falls down to around 1 amp, which is about 35 watts. The amount of power needed to move a dish will usually be less in the Summer. Motors in general do not perform as well in temperatures below freezing, so the dish moving power can be expected to increase during the Winter. My modified ASC1 performs up to my expectations, and up to or above the maximum power requirements for the actuator.

All that is left to do now is repair the ASC1 case screws or bolts, and permanently mount the meters so they can be seen at the front.

I made several searches for ASC1 on the Internet which gave me some threads about problems or issues with this dish mover. Some stores in Europe initially carried or sold the ASC1 when it first came to market, but now I can not find anyone in Europe selling the ASC1. Seems most complaints were about the dish not moving or not stopping correctly, and this is something I have had zero problems with. I also saw some complaints about return shipping for repair, and I think the shipping weight is the biggest problem of the ASC1. Who wants to pay 40-50 dollars to return this thing if it has problems?

[el bandido]

I located a very nice and inexpensive amp or current meter om Ebay.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] 4

This meter worked great, and did a real good job of showing the peak amps at start-up, and the average amps when running. It was comparable to my Fluke amp meter. The wiring for this amp meter confused me, and there were no instructions. I am used to connecting amp meters to the + or plus side of the dc voltage, but this particular meter will be damaged if you do that. At any rate, it lasted about 1 day before shorting out and burning up. The actuator power supply had a dead short for up to 10 hours due to the damaged amp meter before I noticed the problem. No apparent damage was done to the power supply.

I have ordered a couple more of these little amp meters. It will be about two weeks before they get here, and I will try to wire them correctly this time.

Why not do the same mods to a Vbox? Parts have been ordered to do exactly that. I do not see much of a need to pay over two hundred dollars for a modified ASC1 when a modified V box that costs 75 dollars will have the same amount of power. It will be interesting to see how the Vbox mod performs.

[el bandido]

Problems with the ASC1 losing the actuator counts have been a problem. My ASC1 did not have any issues with the actuator counts when I first got it, but then it gradually started losing them. I noticed the sensor wires inside the ASC1 were not shielded, so I removed the ASC1 cover to take a look. I did not notice anything wrong, so I put it back together, then the dish would not move. A broken sensor wire was found when the cover was removed a second time. These sensor wires have about the same quality as the wires in an Openbox S9. I repaired the broken wire, and have not had any more lost count issues. Cannot help but wonder if the wiring is causing others to have lost count issues?

Had another problem with the ASC1 not wanting to move the dish. Recently I installed a Chieta diseqc switch directly behind the receiver, and in front of the ASC1. It looks like the Chieta switch has a bad effect on the ASC1 when installed in this manner. My Gbox has no issues at all with a Chieta diseac switch installed in front of it.

[eastof111]

"Cannot help but wonder if the wiring is causing others to have lost count issues?"

A possible bad or cold solder joint might be stretching it, might still a possibility.

[chewie]

Hello EB
I have the same issues with my ASC1, I was told that I needed to separate the motor wires from the sensor wires because noise from the power wires can affect the sensor counts, I use sprinkler wire for my setup, I have not separated mine yet, but another thing happened, my wife was out on the back yard digging and she cut the wires and shorted out the sensor on the actuator and had to replace the sensor and the wire, but before the wire was cut it was missing counts big time and after I replace the sensor and the wire is been doing very good, I would like to separate the wires but I can not find a 2 wire direct burial cable, I have about 8 feet that the wire has to go in the ground.
Regards.
Chewie

[el bandido]

IMO, Do not do anything if it is working correctly now.
All this talk about shielding makes me wonder why the sensor wires inside the ASC1 are not shielded? Seems if shielding was that critical or important, then it would have been done inside the ASC1.

[el bandido]

Placing the Chieta diseqc switch behind the ASC1, or between the ASC1 and the actuator solved the dish moving problems with the ASC1. Placing the diseqc switch behind the ASC1 also caused the C band dish to be moved when the Ku satellites are called. This problem exists because I am using diseqc 1.2 commands on both C and Ku bands. The diseqc numbers are not the same for both bands, but they are similar. This problem Would Not Exist IF the ASC1 could function like the Vbox and Gbox positioners!

The easiest thing for me to do right now is to put the ASC1 on a shelf where it belongs, and use a Gbox that will work. I like the ASC1, but it just has too many little bugs or issues. I will try to reinstall the ASC1 once there is no need for the Chita diseqc switch.

[el bandido]

A very small dc to dc downconverter was installed to eliminate the replacement transformer. Roughly 4 pounds of Heat Generating weight has been removed from the ASC1. I also eliminated the lnb voltage being produced by the ASC1. This was done by installing A 2 way splitter, with one side of the splitter going to the ASC1, and the other side oif the splitter going to the FTA receiver. There is no reason for the ASC1 or any positioner to supply the lnb voltage in my setup. It was also very aggravating to lose the satellite signal when the ASC1 was turned off. Installing the splitter allows the ASC1 to automatically receive the dsieqc commands, and to automatically move the dish antenna.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

A picture showing the small dc to dc converter installed, and the small replacement transformer removed is attached.

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[eastof111]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the other site is realizing that he should have tested the unit more thoroughly for actual vs. advertised specs. Or, maybe he did and thought why bother correcting the specs when one can always blame the factory.

[el bandido]

The output of a power supply is easy to check. It is not like trying to check a lnb which can have thousands of variables with ten people coming to ten different conclusions on the lnb performance.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The wording for the ASC1 at [Only registered and activated users can see links] was recently changed to this:
Designed with the versatility to control and power both LNBFs, LNBs, pass switch commands and generate or regenerate switching voltages, the ASC1 works on virtually any consumer or commercial system. Packed with the lifting power rated to a maximum of 36Vdc and 5amps,

So now we have a claim of 36 volts and 5 amps, which is misleading at best, but it is a True statement. The ASC1 can do 36 volts without any load, and it can do 5 amps if it is loaded hard enough. But it cannot do 36 volts and 5 amps at the same time!

Why not write what it is capable of doing instead of being deceptive or misleading? Make a chart such as this one?
37 volts at bridge rectifier, no load.
34 volts at 0.5 amps
32 volts at 0.8 amps
27 volts at 3 amps
25 volts at 4 amps (100 watts)
20 volts at 5 amps.(100 watts)

You will not get much more than 100 watts of dish moving power from a stock ASC1. I cannot understand why 5 amps is even mentioned in the specs except for sales because the power output at 4 amps is roughly the same for 5 amps, which is about 100 watts. Maybe the ASC1 should be loaded harder so a reading of say 7 amps at about 15 volts could be seen? Then change the rating to 7 amps instead of 5? LoL.

This is not the way things should be done. You cannot trust the specs of Titanium or most other fta manufacturers.

[tesla420]

Why don't you ask Brian?

[el bandido]

Why don't you ask Brian?:
Any explanation about the specs of this product and why they are listed the way they are should be made public. He is welcome to respond in this thread if he desires to do so.

The ASC1 has a great feature that allows you to save and reload satellite positions. This feature does a very good job of allowing the correct positions to be restored if sensor wire becomes loose or something else happens that throws the count off on every satellite.

[Titanium]

Interesting threads on this and other sites about the modifications that el bandido was performing on his ASC1, observations and comments about the product. I am participating in this thread to support the ASC1 product and to get input on next generation development. I will do my best to answer any questions and provide information that will be helpful in the operation and any custom modifications that you wish to perform. I think that it is very cool that you have used the ASC1 as the basis to build a better mousetrap! Myself and few other hobbyists have modded ASC1s for dual axis, Arduino/RSP control, etc.

There have been several hardware versions of the ASC1 main PCB that have been produced during three manufacturing runs. I made and/or approved component changes in these revisions. You are correct to observe that the relays are rated 10a at 30v and the specification sheet still lists the rating from the original design. I will reflect this correction in the product listings and the spec sheets in the upcoming weeks. This error was my oversight and I will thoroughly review the text and specs for accuracy. Most important to me is that these 30v 10a relays rating remained within the product specifications and provide reliable performance. With several thousand ASC1 units sold, relay failure has been an extremely rare occurrence.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The wiring inside the ASC1 housing is routed and several of the potentially interactive pairs are twisted to prevent interaction between various circuits. There is no need for shielded cables inside the case for the sensor circuit as the low frequency (> 100hz) coupling would not occur on these short jumpers with separated wire routes. It is always recommended to use shielded wiring for the sensor and (if used) servo distribution. Unshielded distribution might be an option for short cabe runs, but will be a problem as the length increases. I have found that beyond 25-35' satellite systems often experience movement errors unless shielded distribution is used. It is best practice to connect the shield at the controller GND terminal and leave open on the dish side.

Just a thought about count issues with the upgraded SMTP switching power supply installed in el bandido's ASC1. I had originally tested several switching power supplies on the pre-production builds, but was not satisfied with the RF noise they introduced to the system. After testing several SMTP PS models, I instead opted for a linear supply that I believe to be more robust, reliable and less prone to introducing noise. Has the upgraded SMTP PS been tested for noise which could be masking sensor counts? Also, the increased power in the distribution wiring and to the motor may result in increased coupling or motor noise. It would be interesting to observe on a scope the SMTP PS interaction with the ASC1 hardware, system components and distribution. el bandido, do you have interest the capability to capture and share scope testing?

The reasoning behind the ASC1 providing LNB power is that LNBs are designed to operate on 15-23Vdc, but STBs polarity switch between 13 and 18Vdc. The low voltage in the vertical polarity setting reduces performance on most LNBs. If I was to get a do over on the ASC1 LNB power, I would add one more setting, LNB power Loop-Through to provide one more option for the diversity of users and their wants/needs.

I look forward to participating in an exchange that will improve our product and assist ASC1 users with operation of their systems. As always. I am available to discuss any observations, concerns or suggestions via phone, email or on the forums.

[el bandido]

Power for the dish motor or power for the actuator should be expressed in watts. The specs for most dish movers or positioners I have seen list amperage and wattage. Here is one example: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

My modified ASC1 is running great, and it is producing the power for the dish now that I wanted. The Atlanta, Ga. area does not usually have extreme winter weather, but it can get cold at times. Snow and icing(s) may also happen in the winter months. In general, the power needed to move the dish may be a bit or even a lot more in the winter as compared to the Summer months. I have made lots of tests on how much energy it takes to move my particular dish system in the Summer, and plan to document what it takes to move it this winter.

This picture is pretty typical of the voltage (35.6) and amps (4.16) I will see when the dish starts moving in the Summer months.
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The only time I have had trouble with ASC1 positioner counts was due to ASC1 factory wiring. One of the wires had almost broken on the inside rear panel, and this was causing the ASC1 to miss counts. The sensor wires are very small, and will break easily. Mine could have broken from it being disassembled, or it could have broken in shipping.
My reasoning on the sensor wires needing shielding is simple: If you shield on the outside, do the same for the inside. Others have reported count issues. They may also say there Vbox does not have the count issue. Vbox does not have sensor wires because the sensor connectors are attached directly to the board. So shielding the sensor wires on the inside of the ASC1 makes sense to me, plus you never know what will be running right beside the ASC1. Some should not have count issues when others do not. It has to be something simple.

Here is a video demonstrating my ASC1 moving from 135 West to 78 West: My dish panels and lnb feed weighs about 350 pounds. This weight does not include the polar mount.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]!nwcGmDxK!1BzyTsG_Thxu-FMmngkmn1hmr4HVxBji0_xhxU5-06I

Replacement Power Supply Noise has not been a problem. I tapped into the ASC1 bridge rectifier which means I am running through the same dc voltage filters as the stock ASc1 power supply. My only ASC1 change was introducing 36 volts dc to the ASC1 motherboard. So if anything, mine is double-filtered - once from the replacement power supply where the ac to dc conversion takes place now, and then again when the 36 volts is introduced at the ASC1 bridge rectifier.

[el bandido]

My modified ASC1 shows a measley 4.5 watts of power being consumed in standby, or when the dish has stopped moving. I thought this was a bad number, but the same watt meter shows 61 watts when connected to a 60 watt ac lamp.

The ASC1 has thermal protectors which no one has written about. Before I modified the ASC1, I tested it to see what it was capable of. I created a series of low wattage light bulbs so I could adjust the load for the ASC1. The stock ASC1 produced a steady 3 amps or about 80 watts for three minutes continuous until thermal protection shutdown. The stock ASC1 was allowed to cool, Next, The stock ASC1 produced a steady 4 amps or about 100 watts for one minute continuous until thermal protection shutdown.

The dish mover from Rick's satellite was purchased. [Only registered and activated users can see links]
This Vbox has a higher voltage output (42 volts), and would move the dish a bit faster than the ASC1 at low amperages of less than about 1.5 amps. An attempt was made to load this VboxII with 3 amps for 3 minutes, which would equal the ASC1 test. The Vbox transformer quit working completely two minutes into this test. The transformer had to be replaced.

It would be great if the ASC1 could be connected to the network the same as a fta receiver. Doing this would give the capability or the possibility for the enigma2 linux receivers to display the output of the ASC1 on the tv screen. It would be great to have the counts seen on the tv screen instead of having to look at the ASC1.

Provide adjustable voltages of up to 22 volts for the lnb

Provide adjustable voltages for the dish motor or actuator. Dc voltages drop quick on long runs. Providing up to 42 volts and 200 watts of power would be great.

Make provisions for a diseqc switch to be ran in front of the positioner. Really this is illegal in fta, but people do it. Not all diseqc switches are capable. The Chieta and some other diseqc switches make it possible, but the current AASC1 will have no part of it. Somehow Vbox and Gbox allow it.

Allow 10 gauge motor wires to be connected. I run 12 gauge wires, and would like to be able to connect them to the dish mover with ease.

Show dc volts and amperage or watts for the dish motor when it is moving.
This is a very common thing to do in industrial settings. Monitoring the amperage will alert you to possible problems. It is real easy to spot dish binding or bad spots in the actuator when you have a good ammeter connected.

[Titanium]

Thank you for the input, observations and suggestions. For some reason, unable to post "likes" and "thanks" to the posts, but I would if possible! :) Will be making the changes to the specification sheet and descriptive text later this week.

Many of your wish list items are in development. Been working on a next gen consumer controller project for the past year+ that I envision will be the basis of a component (build for your needs) system. It is controlled by both traditional STB and event commands, will be released as open software with user adjustments of parameters and alternative communication paths including USB, BT and LAN. Will post more information as the project progresses. The projected timeline for preproduction testing is Q3 2018, so still quite a bit of development and decisions to be made with a product release date still within our lifetimes... LOL!

[ViP3R]

Thank you for the input, observations and suggestions. For some reason, unable to post "likes" and "thanks" to the posts, but I would if possible! :) Will be making the changes to the specification sheet and descriptive text later this week.

Many of your wish list items are in development. Been working on a next gen consumer controller project for the past year+ that I envision will be the basis of a component (build for your needs) system. It is controlled by both traditional STB and event commands, will be released as open software with user adjustments of parameters and alternative communication paths including USB, BT and LAN. Will post more information as the project progresses. The projected timeline for preproduction testing is Q3 2018, so still quite a bit of development and decisions to be made with a product release date still within our lifetimes... LOL!

Sorry about that..your good to go on likes and thanks. :D

[lme]

I know is an old thread, but EB can you repost some attachments starting with post #14 ?
I'm trying to fix my asc, where the issue is some times doesn't move to east with the message :"..reached the limit..."
I have to turn it off for few minutes, and it will come to normal. It looks like the relay gets stuck, or something.
Thx.

[el bandido]

I no longer have those attachments to post. An error on the forum caused those attachments to be removed.

What are you wanting to do?

[lme]

I no longer have those attachments to post. An error on the forum caused those attachments to be removed.

What are you wanting to do?

Replicate your modifications on my asc, hopping to solve that from time to time dreadful message: "...reached the limit...".
No matter where the dish is, this message blocks asc. Needs to be shut off for few minutes to get rid of it..
From your posts I noticed you have ordered a power supply board witch I have it & an extra transformer !!

18086

18087
What is the purpose of the transformer, as long as the board has its own transformer ?
thx.

[Fearless]

Understanding the logic that makes that "limit error" appear will reveal more possibilities for the error. The error is displayed when the dish motor is commanded to move but the ASC1 does not see any pulses from the sensor within 500 milliseconds. So a rusty polar mount can bind and delay movement long enough to set this error. Or a seized acme nut an an actuator. A faulty limit switch or intermittent fault in the motor caused by worn motor brushes. If a relay was stuck you more than likely have a situation where the dish moves one direction when the controller is powered on and won't turn off. Can you hear the relay click when it doesn't move? It still might be a bad relay too.

[Fearless]

18088

Here is one I swapped out the power source. The transformer for the dish is the dish motor transformer from a DSR922 receiver. The transformer that powers the logic board is from an old Uniden receiver. I rotated the main board 90° for better cable management .

[lme]

Understanding the logic that makes that "limit error" appear will reveal more possibilities for the error. The error is displayed when the dish motor is commanded to move but the ASC1 does not see any pulses from the sensor within 500 milliseconds. So a rusty polar mount can bind and delay movement long enough to set this error. Or a seized acme nut an an actuator. A faulty limit switch or intermittent fault in the motor caused by worn motor brushes. If a relay was stuck you more than likely have a situation where the dish moves one direction when the controller is powered on and won't turn off. Can you hear the relay click when it doesn't move? It still might be a bad relay too.

It happens only when try to move the dish to E. When the message is displayed, asc can move the dish to the W, but not E. When pressing the E button, there is NO click (sound) from the relay. Sometimes after few W commands, the E movement is restored !!! I suspect the head from the transf may have an impact also, as the top of the casing in that area is always warm (hot). Brian suggest to install some ferrite rings on the wires for the motor sensor (as in the pic), witch I did but the problem still pop up:

18089

The actuator was replaced 1.5 years ago, after i considered that the first 12 years old, needed to get a rest.

[el bandido]

Sounds like the East relay is going bad.

Eliminate the relays and see if the actuator moves correctly.
To test, remove the two power leads for the actuator from the back of the Asc1. Find some type of small 12-36 volt DC power source, and connect the actuator leads to the power source while watching the front of the Asc1. The counts on the ASC1 should change when power is supplied to the actuator. Then reverse the the actuator power leads, and test the opposite direction. Again the counts for the actuator should move on the front of the ASC1 is supplied.

Portable drill batteries and even a wallwart type dc supply can be used for this test. Move the dish close to the center of the satellite arc if possible for this test as that is the area that takes the least amount of energy to move.

[lme]

Thx.
Before your suggested test I will have an outside, mini fan to blow from the opposite side off the transf to eliminate this potential cause.

[el bandido]

You don't need a fan or anything else except a small dc supply. Nothing inside the asc1 will be working except the counter. Of course, the Asc1 has to be powered ON. But the energy to move the dish comes from your portable supply.

[ArloG]

I have 3 ASC-1 controllers 'in the queue' on my bench. 2 with dead MCU's and one displaying LNB is shorted !
The first 2 will definitely need controllers replaced and then programmed.

I would say that depending on the motor itself. The limit switches and diodes would be a great place to check.
The H bridge relays in the ASC-1 don't particularly make a defined 'click'.
But if you suspect that one may be faulty a sure fire test would be to put 2 #194 automotive bulbs in series and then make a pigtail to put across the motor terminals along with the motor.
Motor unloaded. Either direction. The bulbs should be close to equally bright. If they dim substantially in one direction but not the other. Or flicker slightly more dim. Maybe relay contacts. Maybe.

Either direction the dish is directed. The bulbs should light up but not be very bright. Because you're dividing the amp draw between the motor and bulbs.
I've pulled the relays here and the NO/NC contacts easily pass 5 amps with very little voltage drop at 24 volts. Those were several years old.
After a billion "bumps" W-E tweaking sat. positions.

IF the bulbs dim substantially anytime the motor is powered either direction. 2 reasons. The relay contacts could be in fact faulty. Or the motor could be shorting.
If the lamps suddenly get brighter and then you get an error on the display. It's the motor.
Bad brushes. Tarnished microswitches in the motor limit circuitry.

I've seen limit switch diodes short and seen them open.
Open diode, the motor keeps on truckin' in one direction but won't reverse after a switch is tripped by the limit cam.
And the same if one shorts. Except then the motor keeps going after that limit switch is opened by the cam for that direction of travel.

The reed switch in the motor gets ~5vdc from the optocoupler circuit in the controller. The reed switch has to be able to pass current. Not much. To turn the LED on and off in the opto.
Certainly a good test at the dish would be to put multimeter across the sensor terminals and loosen the magnet to trip the switch. It must traverse from that 5-ish volts (switch opened, no magnet close) to very close if not 0 volts when the magnet closes the switch.
But that's not a real test for the switch integrity. Old contacts can provide a 'dirty' signal at the opto. Missing pulses, create extra ones.

The transformer runs very warm. Probably a bit more when the actuator is on a long run pushing the dish. But the #194 bulb test will show any problems.
One secondary winding powers the ASC-1 circuitry and the other is for the motor power circuit.

As EB suggests in #39. I would simply unbolt the motor after moving the dish to the reference position. So you can set it all back up with limit switches aligned for it.
Put the ASC-1 on a table and wire the motor up directly close to it.
Hook up the bulbs to the motor terminals and run it. Give it a good voltage check. Stick a big honkin' screwdriver or a tool in the coupler and drag it down while its running.
Tap the limit switches firmly and wiggle the plungers. Give the motor housing a few raps. Or better yet just pop it open and check the brushes, springs, commutator. Loose magnets.
Everything to troubleshoot up to the controller can be done w/o opening it up or randomly swapping relays.

[el bandido]

Maybe my suggestion was not clear. All you want to do is see if the actuator counts pulses in both directions. Nothing more than that.

Simple steps:
(1) Disconnect the motor leads to the actuator from the back of the Asc1. Leave everything else connected. Verify the Asc1 ON.

(2) Briefly Connect the actuator motor power leads to a dc voltage source and watch the front of the ASC1. The positioner counts on the front of the Asc1 should change immediately when dc voltage is applied to the actuator motor.
(3) Reverse the actuator motor power leads and test again. The positioner counts on the front of the Asc1 should change immediately when dc voltage is applied to the actuator motor.
<End of Test>

In a properly working system, actuator pulse counts go up or down, depending on the direction of dish travel. This test will cause the pulse counts to be added to one direction. The positioner pulse counts do not know polarity of the actuator motor, so they will be counted in one direction only which means the dish tracking will be off. Disconnecting the motor or doing anything else will not change this.


If you were real careful and did several additional steps, you might not upset the dish tracking pulse counts. Most likely though, the dish is already out of sync with the pulse counts as usually that is the case when there is a positioner problem.

[ArloG]

EB. Unless you have special firmware. The counter will not increment unless the H bridge is active.
In no instance have I even been able to increment the counter with just the encoder and motor not energized.. If so, I would have been a happy camper.
Voltage will be present at the sensor terminals. But operating the encoder alone will not change the counter.

I had discussed this with you in the past pertaining to motor coast after the controller de energized it. Those little added gear train movements after the counter is stopped (but armature slows to a stop) add up and create count errors.
Bottom line. Motor is turned off by the ASC-1, the counter is immediately stopped. No matter if you move the encoder manually or power the motor externally.
As an addition. When searching for and peaking satellite positions before storing them. Positional errors for all other satellites that needed global tweaking before adding the brake reduced by a great amount.
This would occur every time the dish was 'bumped' a few counts at a time. Example. Not being able to lock a signal, but you know the satellite must be there from interpolation.
So you move it a little and perform a blindscan to see is a transponder was snagged. No? Move it a bit more and do it again. Until you finally do hook that fish. Then tweak it in.
Wondering if a V box does it differently.

FYI. When I added a dynamic brake inside of the motor housing in the form of a DPDT relay with the NC contacts connected in series with a .22 ohm braking resistor to the brush wires.
Errors from coast immediately decreased by a great amount.
This was to be a provision in the prototype ASC-1 as was the aforementioned (Brian) PWM mosfet in the motor circuit to coast up/down the motor. Which would have been damned nice to keep.

[el bandido]

My apologies if my information is not correct!
I should withdraw from the conversation of fixing the Asc1 as it is not something I normally use. I am certain lme will find a solution!

[ArloG]

And my apologies too. Good intentions, I know. Hope you accept the same.
I'm just a bit peed that the tech. on these is 'eyes only' still even after they were discontinued. Glad Brian is still supporting keeping them working.
They do have similarities with the V box movers. And is why it would be interesting to know if the counter did actually keep active after the motor is shut down.
Kind of seems not though because the counter wouldn't know which way to go since the encoder is pulse/switch closure only. Not a quadrature encoder like your ham rig would have for he VFO.
But. Try to trust me a little. Because my nose has been in deep with the ASC-1 to R.E. it. As far as the circuit and perpheral components go.
A few I've seen here that I worked on have solder pads lifted just because they felt like it.
And there's a bit of dodgy solder work where the various after mfg. mods such as 22 kHz pass-thru and such was done.
Just that I wouldn't jump to swapping relays w/o proper soldering equipment and practices go. Some of the pc board traces aren't very rework friendly.

The motor could be spun all the live long day in one direction on it's own power and counter not change one bit.
Until the E-W or receiver commands it to actuate. When the direction button is released the counter simply stops and the relays open.
In the case of a go-to command from a receiver. The controller doesn't know which direction the motor is running. Just that the encoder is providing pulses.
Break the sensor connection or stop the magnet and an error will show.
I do believe that there is an over current detection circuit though. Because I've seen 'motor stall' here and there. Different from a limit switch notification / error.

Again. My apologies.

[lme]

Going back to my post #35, what is the purpose of the single transformer, and where is to be installed if needed ?

18114

Thx.

[ArloG]

I may be wrong but perhaps to replace one of the dual secondary windings of the existing transformer. Wired into the board power connector for the motor only circuit.
The secondary windings are specd. at 22 & 24 VAC. One to power the electronics, one to run the motor.
Most actuator motors are rated at 36 VDC. After the rectifier circuit in the ASC-1 the voltage will be a bit above 24 VDC. But once it reaches the dish. Depending on the cable used and length.
Voltage drop could be considerate. As well as current drop. The motor might exhibit even lower voltage when it is running if measured across the screw terminals in the motor housing.

I personally like the idea of the switch mode supply for the motor circuit if only because they allow a small margin of voltage adjustment and regulate current very well. Something that a transformer can't do.

[lme]

Sounds like the East relay is going bad.

Eliminate the relays and see if the actuator moves correctly.
To test, remove the two power leads for the actuator from the back of the Asc1. Find some type of small 12-36 volt DC power source, and connect the actuator leads to the power source while watching the front of the Asc1. The counts on the ASC1 should change when power is supplied to the actuator. Then reverse the the actuator power leads, and test the opposite direction. Again the counts for the actuator should move on the front of the ASC1 is supplied.

Portable drill batteries and even a wallwart type dc supply can be used for this test. Move the dish close to the center of the satellite arc if possible for this test as that is the area that takes the least amount of energy to move.

I did the test today, and the counts on the display didn't change.

[ArloG]

Unless the ASC-1 is commanded to move the dish. Aka: apply relay coil voltage on the h-bridge.
You can put your own power on the motor and the counter won't increment/decrement at all.
And. Again. You can spin the encoder magnet by hand all-the-live-longed-day if the unit is not commanded to actuate the relays.The counter will not move a single digit.
Motor/relays off. Counter deactivated. It's in the firmware.
Maybe a vbox works differently. But not this critter.

[ArloG]

Think about it. The ASC-1 doesn't know if the motor is turning cw or ccw. Becuase the encoder is a simple switch closure. Not a quadrature encoder with leading/trailing pulse pairs.
Therefore. If it were true that you were able to simply put your Harley battery out at the motor. Unhook the to-the-house motor power wires. And give the motor juice. How could the counter know which way to move?
In the ASC-1 MCU. When it commands the relay pair to energize the coils and switch motor polarity and apply power out to the motor.
If it assumes that the actuator is going to move in X direction. The MCU flips into a counts up mode.
When the relay coils are activated to reverse and apply power to the motor. The MCU inverts counting. And down she goes!
You could choose to extend the actuator and have it count up. My choice. Or have it count down when extended just by swapping the motor polarity. The reed switch don't care.

[lme]

Think about it. The ASC-1 doesn't know if the motor is turning cw or ccw. Becuase the encoder is a simple switch closure. Not a quadrature encoder with leading/trailing pulse pairs.
Therefore. If it were true that you were able to simply put your Harley battery out at the motor. Unhook the to-the-house motor power wires. And give the motor juice. How could the counter know which way to move?
In the ASC-1 MCU. When it commands the relay pair to energize the coils and switch motor polarity and apply power out to the motor.
If it assumes that the actuator is going to move in X direction. The MCU flips into a counts up mode.
When the relay coils are activated to reverse and apply power to the motor. The MCU inverts counting. And down she goes!
You could choose to extend the actuator and have it count up. My choice. Or have it count down when extended just by swapping the motor polarity. The reed switch don't care.

Agreed, but just wanted to test EB's suggestion. I'm sure that the hole functionality of ASC is governed by the main chip response to the commands given to the unit itself. As long as an external source is operating the motor, it will not take any action such as to display a count or anything else.

[ArloG]

I guess depending on how your motor is put together you could park your dish at its mechanical/electrical limit.
Then if you so desire mark exactly where the limit cams line up. Remove the microswitch screws and let the switches hang. Unbolt the motor from the tube.
And then power the motor up with your DC power source. And let it spin until the cows come home.
After that press the E-W buttons on the ASC-1 and it will count up or down w/o errors.

I'm wondering. Perhaps will read back for a refresher. Why would you think you need a separate transformer?
The motor drive side of the ASC-1 has its own bridge rectifier and smoothing capacitor. Using the 24 VAC xformer winding. The electronics side has a bridge of 4 separate diodes. That runs from the 22 VAC xformer winding.

If more motor speed were needed my choice would be to build an external H Bridge with cube socket relays or SSR's and a Meanwell 36 VDC switcher.
And keep the guts of the dish mover intact. But. That's me. Probably could kicad up a diagram in a few minutes.

[el bandido]

Think about it. The ASC-1 doesn't know if the motor is turning cw or ccw. Becuase the encoder is a simple switch closure. Not a quadrature encoder with leading/trailing pulse pairs.
Therefore. If it were true that you were able to simply put your Harley battery out at the motor. Unhook the to-the-house motor power wires. And give the motor juice. How could the counter know which way to move?
In the ASC-1 MCU. When it commands the relay pair to energize the coils and switch motor polarity and apply power out to the motor.
If it assumes that the actuator is going to move in X direction. The MCU flips into a counts up mode.
When the relay coils are activated to reverse and apply power to the motor. The MCU inverts counting. And down she goes!
You could choose to extend the actuator and have it count up. My choice. Or have it count down when extended just by swapping the motor polarity. The reed switch don't care.

The test I described is valid for most G box and V box type positioners. The G box and V box type positioners were 40-50 dollars a few years ago, but are a bit pricey today. The pulses or counts go up on these type of positioners anytime the actuator is moved or something else is done to trigger a pulse. The pulses are recorded as counts on the front of the poaitioner when it is powered ON. The counts will be added all in one direction regardless of how the actuator is polarized. The pulse counts may be changed to add or subtract by pressing the east - west buttons on the front of the receiver or by using the positioner remote.

I remember my ASC1 performing the same way where the counts would be added or subtracted anytime the unit was powered on, but apparently my memory is flawed or I had an unusual software installed in it. Pulse counts need to be recorded at all times so any errors in the dish moving may be seen. Cutting the pulse counts off once the positioner has supposedly stopped is a dis-service to the user as any extra pulse count errors will be "unseen" and the operator will be left wondering what the hell is going on.

A stock ASC1 will produce about 100 watts if it is pushed hard enough. You will see this wattage at about 5 amps of draw and 18-20 volts dc output going to the actuator. This amount of power is a bit more than the V box or G box which can produce around 60-80 watts of motor moving power.

I have a Prodelin commercial with a dish weight of about 320 pounds. The dish is in 8 sections, and each section weighs a bit over 40 pounds when put on a calibrated refrigerant scale. The feed and other items puts the weight up to about 350 pounds without the mounting skeleton or polar mount included.

It takes more energy to move my type of dish as compared to most anything else a person will find in a backyard. A 10 foot mesh dish has a dish weight of 60-80 pounds, and some of the homeowner fiberglass will double that mesh dish weight or maybe a bit more. 12 foot home owner dishes will have a bit more weight than the ten footers, but hardly any of them will come close to the weight of a commercial Prodelin. In other words, you can make power modifications to any of the positioners mentioned in this thread, but in most cases, they are not really needed.

The parts shown in post 4 of this thread were installed in my ASC1. These two parts provide 180 watts continuous, with the transformer only being used to supply the low dc voltage needed power the ASC1 The small power supply provides a rated 180 watts continuous power, and provides a steady 35 volts dc while doing so. Peak power is 240 watts, which I have seen a time or two.

In normal operation, it takes a brief surge of about 180 watts to get the dish moving if it is 40 degrees or further from center. But this 180 watts immediately settles down to 100 watts or less. When the motor is moving across the center of the arc, around 40 watts of power is all that is needed. The dish moving is done with a 36 inch ball screw actuator by Venture.

I don't really suggest installing the parts shown in post 4 because they are not needed in the ASC1 unless you want to try to improve the dish moving speed. The ASC1 cannot hold its advertised 36 volts dc when powering the actuator with a ten foot dish attached. It can move the ten footer with east though, but a bit slower than a postioner that runs 35-36 volts dc all the time.

So my opinion here is LME should either fix the ASC1 or simply replace it with a V box. The ASC1 has great advantages when used with a corotor, but for just day to day dish moving, a V box will do that task with ease on most homeowner type dish systems. IMO, the V box type postioners have better software than the ASC1, but they also have less features. I don't recommend modding the ASC1 as shown in post 4 unless there is a reason for it. The only thing most people will see with these mods is an increase in dish moving speed.

[ArloG]

Sorry man. Didn't mean to get all riled up. I've got those 3 defective ASC-1's here 'in the queue' to get running.
The first thing of thought when a simple slap-a-bigger-transformer-in-it was brought up is how small and fragile the pc board traces are.
There is over current protection built into the circuitry that provides feedback to the MCU.
Different from 'motor stall or sensor failure when the actuator slows or the encoder (reed switch) becomes flaky. Motor is Shorted. And LNB is shorted.
Something y'all Atlanter folksies never experience is when it gets below zero and the grease in the actuators becomes candle wax.
So. In my case. At first wrapping a heat tape around the tube and motor. Later just driling a hole for a zerk and pumping in super low temp. grease and flushing out the OEM stuff.
And just in case. Instead of the pulse sensor lag and returning an error. Because 1/6 revolution of the main drive coupling gear waiting for gooey, frozen, roofing tar grease to start flowing.
An encoder wheel with quite a few more ppr fixes that.
Although people up here do comment on how I lived in Florida all of those years. And how hot it is.
I just smirk and mutter. The hotter it gets, the less they wear. Wanna' buy a farm? I gots deers and turkeys and can fish out my back door and there are stars forever. And no friggin' rap 'music' and tomato can mufflers cruising by at all hours. A chopper spotlighted me in Orlando one night headed out to flop my butt on the Harley. I just waived. Warthogs were doing exercises over my fields, treetop level here. I traipsed up and gave 'em a salute. They gave me wing wags and hard breaks backs. Cool, huh!

Nevertheless. There must be a reason that even though most actuators are rated at 36 VDC. These gizomos, the Titiainum and vboxes, send out 24 volts transformer power.
On a side note. I laugh at the audio guys who spend $1500 and up for exotic speaker cable.
And never realize that the audio amps in their stereo have pc board traces that are a few millimeters wide. Maybe like 5. And a few thousands of an inch thick. Mixing imperial and metric is fun.
And once inside of the speaker cabinet. The wiring is 16 gauge.
Kinda' like hooking up a fire hose to the hose spigot on the side of your house. Running it out to the garden And hooking up a 5/8" watering hose to soak the termaters.

Anyway. Relays going bad and digging inside and cooking pc board traces by those less experienced. Splicing in a super inefficient and higher voltage transformer to add load to already weak (but adequate within its design) pc board. Could be eliminated by an easy couple of evening or weekend project.
Duplicate the internal relay circuit with solid state relays, perhaps a hard contact relay for motor reversal and socket. A robust switch mode power supply that provides voltage and current regulation and compensation. All in a compact outboard assembly. I get riled once in awhile. It's all good though. There is that KMA option below which I really like!

[lme]

After my problem with "...reach the limit.." error message, another problem: when the dish was traveling for more then ~30° from one position to another, the display was blinking, went dark, but after the dish reach the destination, display was lit. No signal at the destination point and trying to fine tune the dish, realized that asc lost the counts for the position.
Looked inside asc, and found that one component was kind of lose on the circuit board (see arrow):

18133
Noticed that this component is very close to the main transformer; maybe to much heat from transformer ?
I soldered back the 3 legs of the component and for the last 2 days, no more errors or display problems.
What do you guys think ?

[Fearless]

After my problem with "...reach the limit.." error message, another problem: when the dish was traveling for more then ~30° from one position to another, the display was blinking, went dark, but after the dish reach the destination, display was lit. No signal at the destination point and trying to fine tune the dish, realized that asc lost the counts for the position.
Looked inside asc, and found that one component was kind of lose on the circuit board (see arrow):

18133
Noticed that this component is very close to the main transformer; maybe to much heat from transformer ?
I soldered back the 3 legs of the component and for the last 2 days, no more errors or display problems.
What do you guys think ?

I found that variable voltage regulator to be misaligned in several PCBs. Soldered to the board next to the thru holes they should be mounted in. I had one break during use. That brought my attention to it and I found others with a similar problem.

[Fearless]

There is a fix to improve the LCD display contrast. Thought I would write this down before I forget it. On the LCD pcb remove R3 (222) and replace with (472).

[el bandido]

.
Something y'all Atlanter folksies never experience is when it gets below zero and the grease in the actuators becomes candle wax.
So. In my case. At first wrapping a heat tape around the tube and motor. Later just driling a hole for a zerk and pumping in super low temp. grease and flushing out the OEM stuff.
And just in case. Instead of the pulse sensor lag and returning an error. Because 1/6 revolution of the main drive coupling gear waiting for gooey, frozen, roofing tar grease to start flowing.
An encoder wheel with quite a few more ppr fixes that.
You are probably running an actuator that is operating beyond its lifespan. That is why you had to pump it full of grease. I doubt you find find a grease fitting on a new heavy duty actuator. They are sealed units and what they have in them is supposed to last the lifetime of the unit. You are living the example of why they don't have grease fittings anymore: Cold weather.




Nevertheless. There must be a reason that even though most actuators are rated at 36 VDC. These gizomos, the Titiainum and vboxes, send out 24 volts transformer power.pc board.
The reason is cheap. Vbox type Positioners are made from the cheapest materials known to man. Disassemble one sometime and you will see...

I never fully understood the ASC1 either. The stock transformer weighs something like 6-8 pounds. WHY? I have been running the small power supply's shown in post 4 of this thread for years without a failure The cost of one of those supplies was about 20 bucks or less when I bought them. They do a fantastic job of providing the needed DC voltage and watts to power satellite actuators. A satellite dish positioner is all about start-up. It only has milliseconds to move or you get a failure. Twenty something volts and an amp or two for current in cold weather probably doesn't cut it for some folks --even when using a mesh dish that is not very heavy.

[ArloG]

You are probably running an actuator that is operating beyond its lifespan. That is why you had to pump it full of grease. I doubt you find find a grease fitting on a new heavy duty actuator. They are sealed units and what they have in them is supposed to last the lifetime of the unit. You are living the example of why they don't have grease fittings anymore: Cold weather.

Well. To counter that. Actually. One train of thought would be yeah. 5 years, swap it out. Except for the same dish my mom and dad had installed back in the 80's is still standing. And I use it today after some mild refurbishing. There is literally a box of actuators from Venture, Von Weise, Saginaw Gear, "Houston Tracker". Dad just wrapped a heat tape and sliped pipe insulation over it and ran an extension cord to keep it warm in the winter.
Funny. "End of life". No maintenance. Run 'er 'till she pukes. Installers back in the day loved it. It gives you crap. Call him. He shows and swaps the unit out. Resets your positions. And bills you.
If you didn't move that dish in the cold cold winter. No problems. Wait 'till spring. Or. Slap on a heat tape (even on a brand new replacement) and punch Satcom 4. Ba-da-bing!

Go ahead. I dare you. I challenge you. Take an aged but working fine actuator-du-jour. Throw it in the deep freezer and get it down to -10f. Give it some pixies.
You've probably never (or remember) trying to start a car in subzero temperatures. "ER-RRRR-RRR-RR-R....*Start*. IFyou're lucky. Not so lucky? After a few cranks...*click click click*
Charger time. And starting ether. Jesus! Automatic tranny's don't even have dipsticks anymore. And factory recommendations to never change the sauce in them. She pukes, swap 'er out.
Goodfellas...."eff you, pay me". Fred at your local independent service facility with beer in the fridge who happens to know and love your type of vehicle knows better.
Pull the pan. Dump "at least" some of the juice. And refill it. And 4 grand pending turns into a hundred-fifty bucks and 200k miles before trading in.

So. A drill. A zerk. A grease gun loaded with Lucas super low temp grease that looks like a nasty sinus infection discharge. Not exactly a bad thing. And it works. Tear down the motor. Clean and grease it. A pair of brushes from the auto parts or hardware store assortment. I rest my case.
Is a polar mount worn out when the pivots are sloppy and the bronze bushings are all hob-wobbly? Thirty bucks for pillow blocks. A few bucks for hardware. Center punch a few dimples. Drill a few holes. ratchet strap and c-clamp a few things in place. Mr. DeWalt and some sharp drills.
What would you think if I were to come out and condemn your Prodelin because the pivots were toast? Look at my quote for a new General Dynamics 12 footer. Nah. I don't think so.
Oh yeah. This is all grain of salt and backbone. Please don't turn into a shrinking violet.
I'm a living example of my economy is not disposable. American Ingenuity. Dislike for planned obsolescence. Drinking a cold beer under a shade tree from a recycled Hyundai and Kia.
One stinkin' hole. A grease fitting. Some pumps of goo. And Venture waits another day.


The reason is cheap. Vbox type Positioners are made from the cheapest materials known to man. Disassemble one sometime and you will see...

I never fully understood the ASC1 either. The stock transformer weighs something like 6-8 pounds. WHY? I have been running the small power supply's shown in post 4 of this thread for years without a failure The cost of one of those supplies was about 20 bucks or less when I bought them. They do a fantastic job of providing the needed DC voltage and watts to power satellite actuators. A satellite dish positioner is all about start-up. It only has milliseconds to move or you get a failure. Twenty something volts and an amp or two for current in cold weather probably doesn't cut it for some folks --even when using a mesh dish that is not very heavy.

The Vbox I can 100% agree on. It's open source and readily available for cheap to nothing to design and program. They work. The code is locked in the MCU by whomever decides to clone them.
Could they be made better? Certainly. Could they have a nice display like the ASC-1? Probably.

The ASC-1? It's a love/hate for me. All I want to do is repair a few. Reverse engineering the circuitry took a bit for the sections that show faults. And the whole design is "eyes only". I will need Brian's assistance after getting the circuitry aced. One, maybe two need microcontrollers. Not so hard to do with the right equipment and skill.
It's a Vbox in essense. With some really cool bells and whistles.
The motor power side is rectified xformer voltage. No regulation to speak of and prone to voltage/current sag. Something that a SMPS would handle most awesome. Plus just sitting in the case it sucks juice and makes heat. Again. something that SMPS supplies do very well in management of idle current.
And in agreement of the millisecond lag dish movement error generation. Try it when your motor grunts trying to get that negative-twenty molasses squishing.
Instead of drooping voltage and current running through X feet of cable. An smps senses it and compensates. Everyone needs a little boost once in awhile.

Vbox. Cheap. They work. No big sting if one takes a crap.
Make your own from a PIC mcu. Bare PC boards are out there.
Adruino. Now. That catches my interest. The diseqc library is freely available. Projects abound. Some are pretty cool.
The Research Concepts commercial dish movers. 1 axis, 2 axis. Ebay has quite a few nice ones for not too bad of a price.
It was mentioned. Reading from the FTA guys who use them. Pretty robust. Although you have to manually punch up a memory store to move your dish.
But they do have pc software and a RS422 interface. Bing!
Once i get the interest of the right Arduino guy I'll get very involved. Diseqc works on a data string. ASC-1, Vbox "listens" for the command to move to a memory location.
The Arduino motor control projects do the same thing.
It's all there for the Arduino. Instead of waiting for a go-to command and actuating relays and counting encoder pulses.
Let the Arduino receive the command. And relay it transcoded to a RS422 string that a RC mover understands. The data packets of diseqc are very similar to RC controller protocols. But different.
A display on the Arduino showing a command was sent from the receiver to move to SES-1, etc. And the RC mover doing it. No more dead Vbox. No more hoping that your ASC-1 wont die of sudden death.
Arduino guys please speak up!

[MikeB]

The Vbox I can 100% agree on. It's open source and readily available for cheap to nothing to design and program. They work. The code is locked in the MCU by whomever decides to clone them.
Could they be made better? Certainly. Could they have a nice display like the ASC-1? Probably.

The ASC-1? It's a love/hate for me. All I want to do is repair a few. Reverse engineering the circuitry took a bit for the sections that show faults. And the whole design is "eyes only". I will need Brian's assistance after getting the circuitry aced. One, maybe two need microcontrollers. Not so hard to do with the right equipment and skill.
It's a Vbox in essense. With some really cool bells and whistles.
The motor power side is rectified xformer voltage. No regulation to speak of and prone to voltage/current sag. Something that a SMPS would handle most awesome. Plus just sitting in the case it sucks juice and makes heat. Again. something that SMPS supplies do very well in management of idle current.
And in agreement of the millisecond lag dish movement error generation. Try it when your motor grunts trying to get that negative-twenty molasses squishing.
Instead of drooping voltage and current running through X feet of cable. An smps senses it and compensates. Everyone needs a little boost once in awhile.

Vbox. Cheap. They work. No big sting if one takes a crap.
Make your own from a PIC mcu. Bare PC boards are out there.
Adruino. Now. That catches my interest. The diseqc library is freely available. Projects abound. Some are pretty cool.
The Research Concepts commercial dish movers. 1 axis, 2 axis. Ebay has quite a few nice ones for not too bad of a price.
It was mentioned. Reading from the FTA guys who use them. Pretty robust. Although you have to manually punch up a memory store to move your dish.
But they do have pc software and a RS422 interface. Bing!
Once i get the interest of the right Arduino guy I'll get very involved. Diseqc works on a data string. ASC-1, Vbox "listens" for the command to move to a memory location.
The Arduino motor control projects do the same thing.
It's all there for the Arduino. Instead of waiting for a go-to command and actuating relays and counting encoder pulses.
Let the Arduino receive the command. And relay it transcoded to a RS422 string that a RC mover understands. The data packets of diseqc are very similar to RC controller protocols. But different.
A display on the Arduino showing a command was sent from the receiver to move to SES-1, etc. And the RC mover doing it. No more dead Vbox. No more hoping that your ASC-1 wont die of sudden death.
Arduino guys please speak up!

Here you go Arlo, have at it!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[el bandido]

I seriously doubt anyone here will do the linked arduino diseqc 1.2 project because it is too much work. And for what gains?
All I need is the actuator to move precisely to a given satellite when it is selected. Really nothing more than that. I also think it is a good idea to be able to see the current being drawn as the dish moves, and have an amperage meter installed that shows 0.00 or two decimal places.

The only thing I would add for my current dish moving system is the ability to see the motor counts on the tv screen when the motor is called. It would be nice if I could figure out an easy way to do that.