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By my measurements, the Channel Master filter is about a 2dB drop maximum, and only seems to affect the higher rf channels the most, IE: 34-36. Most stations at that high a frequency, are typically very high powered, so a 2dB drop shouldn't really hurt at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by el bandido [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]
Was Channel Master to embarrassed to publish the insertion loss specs for this filter? My highest tv mux is at 605 MHz.
With Channel Master filter installed:
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Without Channel Master filter installed:
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I'm not interested in taking a 2 something db loss in signal unless I have to. For me, the Channel Master filter will be removed and put in the spare parts drawer. It does at least a decent job of removing the unwanted signals. Other locations will have different results. I don't normally have things installed inline between the antenna and receiver unless they are needed. Right now, I do not seem to need this Channel Master filter.
The satellite band pass filters will have a similar effect on satellite signals. You can expect least a 1 or 2 db loss in signal when installing a satellite c band filter. I guess the Channle Master tv filter was all of twenty dollars, so no great loss for me. The cheapest satellite band pass filter that we know works costs hundreds of dollars for one filter. Make sure you need the satellite filters before you buy them and understand what will happen to the usable signals once the filters are installed. The insertion loss of a band pass filter cannot be recovered by using any line amplifier that I know of.
Agree with all you said. Notch or bandpass filters always introduce some loss. Nature of the beast. Just piecing coax together with F connectors and a barrel connector create loss. (But not 2db) Grounding blocks cause db loss too.... but ya best not run without them! It's all in doing what you have to do.
I expect many of us unnecessarily lose a db or more. Dish needs fine tuning. Lossy coax, connectors, and switches. Lossy lnb's. Under-performing receivers. etc. I know 'cause I'm lazier and cheaper than most. We can get THAT signal back anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by el bandido [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]
If necessary, one could probably 'recover' part of that loss by switching from rg6 to rg11. Or a larger dish. :brows:
Actuallly there are l band preamps a-mundo. With DC pass-thru, even!
Not cheap though. Just hoping that it's understood that signal attenuation from the lnbf IF amp (out the cable to your casa) does not equate to weak signal in the low noise amplifier section.
I can vouch for Belden 9913 and Times LMR-400 cable in the amateur radio world. If cable quality is that big of an issue, consider LMR-400-75.
Interesting. Didn't know LMR-400 came in 75 ohms, only knew about the 50 ohm version. Very cost prohibitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArloG [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]
LMR-400-75, nice stuff but hard to run,doesn't bend as good as RG-6, connectors are a bit extensive, and requires a special tool to crimp them.
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And yes it is a bit on the expensive side, 500 foot roll at $800. (smallest I could find) And one connector at $47, would be OK if you had a very long run from the dish to the house, you would need flexible jumpers to connect to the LNB and receiver as this stuff is 3/8 of an inch in diameter.
search flebay rg-11 gel fill , also reasonability priced crimp “ f” connectors, look for multi size crimp tool, dies go from tiny rg174 to rg8/11/ lmr400, one die will do 3 or 4 sizes, get ratchet style, for weather proofing use “ plumbers goop “ at big box stores, watch $$ some expensive some reasonable, 4 oz tube about $ 4.00, if want to then put shrink tube over it,
To be clear,
If you install a mechanical filter to block unwanted 5G c band signals, then you lose whatever the insertion loss is of the mechanical filter until the mechanical filter is removed. For example, Alga Microwave Filter,Part # 210031803K has an advertised maximum insertion loss of 1.3 db. Whatever the loss of this filter actually is cannot be removed from the satellite dish system by using a larger coax.
Usually a consumer satellite dish will have some room for improvement in the signal area. You may be able to adjust the skew, align the dish, or do something else to bring the received signal up. But there is nothing you can do to replace or cancel the insertion loss of a mechanical filter.
I would not notice much difference if I lost a db or two of signal on my 3.6 meter Prodelin dish on the majority of satellite tv channels. But a db or two of loss would have a noticeable effect for me on some feeds that have 8psk and apsk transponders with a high fec. I also have mostly rg11 installed in my antenna systems, but rg11 does very little to improve the signal. The coax is automatically amplified that runs between the lnb and fta receiver. This is why the signal apparently stays the same whether you are using 10 feet or 200 feet of coax between the lnb and fta receiver.
The 5G interference in c band has not really begun yet because not much of it has been deployed as compared to the amount of licenses that were auctioned. There are enough licenses to put 5G c band signals on almost every cell tower in the United States. So far, or at least in my area, the only place where 5G c band signals exist on cell towers is in densely populated areas. This is certain to change in the next couple of years.
C band users in the U.K also have a 5G c band interference problem. Here is a link to one of their threads discussing it:
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Most of the cavity band pass filters that would block the 5G c band signals have an advertised insertion loss of 1-2 db. A 1-2 db loss in signal will not have much effect on a 12 foot dish that is being used in North America. But the lower you go in dish size, the bigger the 1-2 db insertion loss becomes. For example, a 6 foot c band dish would lose a noticeable amount of channels if a 2 db loss in signal was inserted into it. For this reason, don't just go buy and install a mechanical c band 5G filter without exploring all of the other options first.
Places like Rainier Satellite want you to buy a mechanical filter first. Rainier wants you to call instead of discussing the problem in the forum where everyone can see. The Rainier satellite solution is to decide you need a filter without doing any testing. Keep in mind the Rainier mechanical filter is about 100 dollars higher than anyone else. So this is a loss of two hundred dollars if you purchase two!
The Rainier Satellite Solution to 5G c band interference:
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I've been having some issues lately with my signal breaking up and dropping all together. Wasn't sure what was causing this Contacted Rainier tech support on the phone for help. They explained to me I was experiencing a interference problem from a newly turned on 5G tower. After discussing with Rainier I ordered their 5G blue filters to place between the feedhorn and Norsat LNB's. Got them installed last weekend. All previous problems have stopped. My signal is solid as a rock. I highly recommend going with Rainier for any satellite problem you may have. These guys are great!
Seems like the owner is posting his comment/question and replying to himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by el bandido [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]