Titanium Satellite C2PLL: Where's The Beef?

[el bandido]

Thanks but I already have a Geosat C2.
For me, the Geosat C2 performs exactly the same as the Titanium C2. Brian Gohl is the biggest con artist and Hustler for putting that useless heat sink on the Titanium lnb. If that fancy heat sink had been installed under the lnb connectors instead of being used as an air cover, it might have done a tiny bit of good.

[Costactc]

Thanks but I already have a Geosat C2.
For me, the Geosat C2 performs exactly the same as the Titanium C2. Brian Gohl is the biggest con artist and Hustler for putting that useless heat sink on the Titanium lnb. If that fancy heat sink had been installed under the lnb connectors instead of being used as an air cover, it might have done a tiny bit of good.

Sorry EB, I meant if Sadass was interested as we live in the same city.

[Costactc]

Today is the day, testing:

psi x2
bsc 422
titanium c2
cl-242

[Costactc]

Mixed results today. The titanium c2 was outperformed by the other 3 lnbf. The bsc422 and cl2 were neck to neck on most sats and in the end I left my psi x2 lnbf as my main c band feed.

[el bandido]

The PLL lnbs do not have any REAL advantage over DRO lnbs on the satellite signals that we receive.

[Titanium]

Hello El Bandido,

Why you call me a con artist? I do not understand what motivates the repeated attacks against me and products in so many LegitFTA threads. I have never defrauded anyone, never made false performance claims or participated in faked or rigged testing. I am a hobbyist first and a product wholesaler / re-seller second. I enjoy participating in several satellite forums and try to provide hobbyists with solid technical advice and purposefully try not promote Titanium products in my postings. I always have refunded or replaced products at no charge (including shipping cost) for any Titanium Satellite product owner. If you are dissatisfied with any Titanium Satellite product or have a defective product, I will either refund or replace the item at no cost to you, your choice! Please email me at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] or call 530-652-4405. I am sure that you will be pleasantly surprised at how much I care about my customers being satisfied with a Titanium Satellite product and their customer support experience.

I invest in producing new products that do not exist in our hobby. While other distributors are leaving the industry or downsizing their product offering, I decided to invest in new high quality and long-lasting products rather than relabel the same off-the-shelf OEM products. After selling the C-band PLL LNBs for nearly two years, we are finally about make a profit on the PLL development investment.

Just a brief paragraph about the C-band PLL LNBFs. PLL LNBs perform similar to DRO LNBs on strong and fat transponders. The PLL performance is best observed on narrow bandwidth or threshold signals. While each LNBF model balances the performance across the band to provide what is viewed by the developer as optimal performance, I have done my best to provide a unique product that offers a stable, yet cost effect solution provide reliable reception of weak and threshold signals. I would have preferred to cast the body with fins, but the factory could not provide an economical way to produce the design. During prototype testing, we found that by replacing the traditional cover plate with the cooling fin cover, we could reduce the operating temperature. You are correct, the fins are best positioned so they are in the shade of the body (rotate the body 180 degrees to place the fins on the bottom) or installed inside a white color feedhorn cover with good ventilation. When installed with an ambient temperature below 120 degrees F, the cooling fins reduced the operating cavity temperature by a minimum of 10%. The lower the ambient temperature, the more efficient the fins.

If I am not developing and distributing a quality and reliable product that provides a great experience, I am evidently doing something wrong! Please email or call me to discuss current products and future development. I really value and appreciate input!

[el bandido]

II do not see any benefit from installing a heat sink in the way you have chosen and consider it nothing more than a con to trick people into thinking they are buying something with a higher performance.

I have never seen a heat sink used to cool air. Fans are used to cool air.
You are saying the purpose of the heat sink is to lower internal air temperature, and at 120 degrees F, the temperature is reduced by 10 percent using the heat sink? How much performance gain is there when a lnb is operating at 120 degrees when compared to 108 degrees? How much does the internal air temperature Rise when the heat sink is exposed to direct sunlight???
A well designed insulated lnb cover would do a much better job at lowering lnb temperature in the daytime and hot weather than a metal heat sink sitting in the sun that is coupled to nothing.

For a heat sink to be effective, it has to be coupled to something that produces heat. It cannot be expected to add any heat reduction benefit if it is installed against dead air and is further isolated from the lnb body by a rubber seal. The majority of the heat generated by a lnb will be noticed at the connectors. Installing a heat sink under the connectors would dissipate some heat, but it would be questionable whether enough heat was dissipated to show a noticeable gain in lnb performance. Again, a well designed insulated lnb cover will do more to lower heat than installing a heat sink on an isolated cover.

I do not see any marked difference in performance in your Titanium C2 lnb as compared to your Geosat C2 lnb. Both of these lnbs perform almost identical on my dish system, and I would prefer your Geosat C2 version over the Titanium C2 version due to the lnb body design.

I also do not see any marked difference when comparing both of your C2 lnbs to an older Pauxis DRO lnb. Granted, some signals are stronger on the C2 lnbs when compared to the Pauxis, but other signals are also weaker on the C2 lnbs when compared to the Pauxis. (These discrepancies are common when comparing any group of similar designed antennas.)

[Titanium]

I am sorry that you view me as a con artist! I run my business with integrity and try to provide innovative products and help hobbyists as much as possible. I do speak openly about the BS in the industry and this can sit wrong with some. You may not be aware, but since September of 2013 I have not been a participating owner of Satellite AV. I sold the company and started Titanium Satellite. I did not develop the GEOSATpro C2 Phase Lock Loop for Satellite AV. There is a reason that both C1 and C2 PLL LNBFs operate similarly.... The GEOSATpro LNBs were copies of the Titanium PCBs and were being sold at unusually low margins and with no development costs. The GEOSATpro C1 and 2 Phase Lock Loop LNBFs are no longer being sold via resellers, Ebay, Amazon, etc due to infringement issues with Titanium products. The issue has been resolved by their agreement to remove them from the wholesale/reseller market.

If you are distracted by the 3.3 ounce cooling fins (vs a 1.4 ounce cover plate) and want a great low price, we do offer a single output model, the C1W-PLL "lite". We may offer a dual output "lite" model in the future, but I wanted to recapture the initial development costs before expanding the product line.

Yes, cooling fins would be more efficient if cast into the body. As this would have required multi-step molding process with extensive machining, the unit cost would have been quite high. The thermal bonding to the body is via the screws and via the air exposure in the the PCB cavity. The rubber gasket is necessary to waterproof the housing and a thermal paste would not be applicable. If a minimum 10% reduction in cavity temperature can be obtained by manufacturing with cooling fins, why not add this low cost design addition? What is the down side? We did not test for increased heat transfer via incorrect installation with direct exposure to the sun. We provide instructions with mounting the fins in the shade of the body or in a ventilated feedhorn cover.

The slightly higher product cost has little to do with the .45 cent cooling fins. It is primarily due to the very high development cost of the PLL PCB. Also add in the higher quality components/build materials/accessories and the specification/performance sorting. Now that the initial development investment is covered, I predict that additional products will be developed from the PCBs and we will be able to offer other options that better suit your preferences and needs.

We stand behind our products 100% and offer a lifetime warranty on all LNBFs. If any customer is unsatisfied with the performance of a Titanium Satellite product, we are happy to refund or replace. Thank you for allowing me to respond on the your forum. Please contact me with any questions or comments.

[el bandido]

I asked the original purchaser of this product, about installation instructions. No instructions with mounting the fins in the shade of the body or in a ventilated feedhorn cover were included or provided. Where the cooling fins actually end up will depend on lnb/dish skew, and having the cooling fins exposed to direct sunlight may not be avoided in some applications unless a cover is used.

Air acts like an insulator, and this is why it is critical to attach the heatsink correctly. (More on this below)

Air makes a very effective heat insulator, so for the heat to get from the CPU to the heatsink, the heatsink must be installed without any air gaps whatsoever.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Atlanta has many metal buildings, and I do not see any of these buildings with a hole cut in the side and a piece of aluminum or a giant heatsink attached to these buildings to lower the inside temperature. If your design worked, would not industrial buildings use it? Many industrial buildings will have inside temperatures of 120 degrees or better in the summer. I assure you they would attach heatsinks to the sides of the building if it would lower the inside temperature 5-10 percent.

Example:
Machines that melt plastic to make plastic bottles operate at extremely high temperatures. You cannot install a piece of metal or a heatsink on a wall that this machine is very close to and expect the heat of the machine to be transferred to the heatsink on the wall. This is not realistic because the air acts like an insulator.

[Titanium]

The LNBF installation guide is available for download and we provide the resellers with the link and ask that it is provided on the product listings, invoices and customer communications. Please have your friend contact me for the link if desired. Since the LNBF may be rotated 180 degrees and still set the correct Skew, it is likely that the cooling fins will be able to be placed in the shade of the LNBF body.

LNB(f)s are designed to dissipate heat via the body mass. The cooling fins thermal bond to the body casting via the set screws. The additional surface of the cooling fins assist with dissipating the heat from the cast body.

In regards to the cavity heat exchange, I was only agreeing with you that the air in the cavity was in contact with the back side of the cover like with all LNB(f)s. This likely has very poor thermal transfer and LNB(f)s do not cool the electronics this way. I am not aware of any LNB(f) design that vents the cavity air.

If the cooling fins were attached to a shaded wall and that wall was hotter than the ambient temperature, the cooling fins would provide increased surface to transfer the heat from the hot walls. Engineers usually chose more efficient methods to regulate building temperatures by insulating, increasing or shading the building's mass and typically regulate temperature via air based heat exchange.