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    #31
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    Hey guys. Not intending on hijacking this discussion.
    Ime. You've proven solidly that your VU+ can snag signals that the mio can't. I wonder two things.
    IF your VU+ tuner is simply more sensitive or if the soldered in mio tuner may be either not as "hot" (or cold in degrees kelvin in the old days) or if it's perhaps defective.
    In other words. If you put 2 mio's side by side with the same image, if one shows a higher dB reading.
    It would be cool if EB could try that even if he only had a mio and a mio+.

    Another thing. EB, you know. Is the signal strength display a rudimentary value that you code into an image or if the actual tuner received strength coming from the data stream is converted into a value? Maybe I'm off on a tangent. 0 dB is obviously...nothing received. But for example on my mio, transponders on 99W blow in showing 17 dB+ and the bargraph is maxed out.
    Is that something that one coder could say.....let's make signal capture (where pixellation occurs) 9 dB and 15 dB is saturation. Another might decide 6 dB is lock and 20 dB is saturation. Good question?

    I don't know. Maybe a DRO vs PLL could perform the same if the AFC of the DRO tracks properly. Always wondered how they work internally if the ambient temperature fluctuated widely between day and night. Kind of like an old boat anchor ham radio receiver needs to warm up to stabilize. But ones with PLL synthesizers and crystal ovens turn on rock solid. And keep on rockin'.

    It was mentioned that I should get an ortho and a couple of Norsats. Then I'm told that there isn't a phenomenal difference between that setup and a quality LNBF. I was ready to get a bread bag and spool of fishing line and vacuum the pull another run of coax. As it stands I didn't jump for that Harvard ortho and pair of Norsat lnb's. Whew! Comments?

    Still trying to figure out something else. In the fall and spring when the earth tilts. Probably 1-2 EST. Sats obliterate like clockwork. 101W will reduce signal about 1 dB/minute. Then it's gone for a half-hour, 45 minutes. 103W awhile later. Same thing. And on down the arc.Same thing in the fall.
    Or take 127W for an example. Around midnight it will die for a bit.
    But looking at stellar charts I use for my astronomy kick. The sun is nowhere inline with 127. Maybe I'm missing something.
    I even adjust the declination on my 12 footer in the spring and fall to keep signals peaked.

    FYI. on my mio4k. on C Band 9-9.2 dB seems to be the threshold where pixellation and signal lock loss happens.
    On ku I can dip all the way down in the 5's. Is that typical?

    ......sit back. enjoy the flight. we're not headed to tripoli or havana!
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    #32
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    As far as satellite signals are concerned, No consumer fta receiver does an accurate job of displaying signal strength. The signal from the satellite does not magically get stronger or weaker. This needs to be understood first!

    What we see in signal strength on a fta receiver can be controlled in part by the drivers that the manufacturer produces. These drivers are closed source. For example, Edision had the MIO receiver's signal strength of 100 set to equal 25db. In other words, 100% = 25db. I enjoyed this because at the time, most of our signal devices (apps) that could connect to enigma2 receivers showed in %. So I could adjust the dish and never hit 100%.

    Then people complained about the Edision MIO's, saying they performed poorly because the the signal percentage was lower than their old receiver. Not really wanting to lose sales over such nonsense, Edision moved the MIO's percent where 100% = 15db. So today, when you hit 100% of signal on your MIO, your db reading is 15. The db signal can continue to climb, but the signal in % will not go above 100. Understand how this works. Satellite Signal Readings in db or % in a consumer fta receiver do not mean much unless you are trying to align a dish or something similar.

    Things have gotten somewhat better as compared to years earlier. The MIO, MIO+, and Octagon SF8008 will all produce similar db readings on most satellite signals. Any Vu+ receiver will be all over the place, especially in db readings. Whether the signal reading accuracy will improve or deteriorate on future receivers is unknown. Hopefully it will improve.

    Most fta satellite receiver tuners have a maximum signal strength of -30dbm, and a minimum of -60dbm. Some satellite cards go to -70dbm on the low end, so you get to see a weak signal longer, but you cannot really use it. This means that fta consumer satellite signals are pretty much on equal footing in the signal reception area. It is true some satellite receivers are better than others when it comes to signal reception, but this is almost always at the bottom end which is marginal or weak signals.

    Connectors mean something in fta. In general, a lnb with one connector will have a slight signal advantage as compared to a two connector lnb. A fta receiver with one antenna connector usually has a slight advantage over another receiver with multiple connectors. The only time you will notice or see the difference is weak or signals.

    Then you have a minimum signal to lock.
    Different satellite transponders will need a different signal strength to lock. If a consumer fta receiver cannot lock, then usually the signal meter shows 0 even though a signal actually exists --the signal is just to weak to lock. Charts are available that show how much signal is needed to lock. For example, a DVB-S2 8psk signal with a fec of 9/10 will take 11 db to lock. If the signal falls much below that level then the receiver cannot lock and displays 0. So you may see a signal strength of 70-80 percent one minute, then 0 and wonder what the hell is going on. OR receiver A won't lock it because the signal is marginal but receiver B does lock it and shows somewhere between 70-100%!. Then you think receiver A sux and receiver B is something glorious!

    The Amiko Mini4K is currently the worst receiver for signal strength that I own. That thing produces somewhere between 80-100% on every transponder. You can move the dish down to where the signal is very marginal, only 2-3 db on a DVB-S transponder and the Amiko Mini4K will still show 80%. Keep this in mind when you are trying to compare receivers using signal strengths.
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    #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArloG View Post
    ....

    It was mentioned that I should get an ortho and a couple of Norsats. Then I'm told that there isn't a phenomenal difference between that setup and a quality LNBF. I was ready to get a bread bag and spool of fishing line and vacuum the pull another run of coax. As it stands I didn't jump for that Harvard ortho and pair of Norsat lnb's. Whew! Comments?
    Aw come on and take one for the team. I'd rather ya spend YOUR money and post the results later. lol
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    #34
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    Need more signal? Get a bigger dish. If you cannot get a bigger dish, then look at lnb replacement. There is not any magic in most lnbs. Some perform better than others, and there are lnbs that work correctly and lnbs that don't work correctly. Know WHY you are replacing a lnb before spending money.

    Intermittent signal problems are usually not in the lnb. LNB's usually work or they don't, but there are rare exceptions. Intermittent signal loss can usually be traced to cabling or connectors. Lots of times moisture is the cause of intermittent signal loss. The least expensive thing to do is check ALL connectors first. Look for loose connections, poor fittings, or moisture inside connectors. Cables should be tested correctly when possible before replacing them.
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    #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by armadillo_115 View Post
    Aw come on and take one for the team. I'd rather ya spend YOUR money and post the results later. lol
    ohhh that paddle-dillo. he think totem pole aliveee. lol.

    i'm so tight, only dogs hear it when i fart...
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    #36
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    Shown below are a couple of Norsat 8525 RF lnbs with feed.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    I will install these lnbs on a 10 foot mesh dish when time permits. I would not pay money for these parts if cheaper parts would do the same job.
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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by el bandido View Post
    Shown below are a couple of Norsat 8525 RF lnbs with feed. ...

    ... I will install these lnbs on a 10 foot mesh dish when time permits. I would not pay money for these parts if cheaper parts would do the same job.
    I like the ONE I bought. Works better than any of the cheaper (new or used) lnb's I tried previously. I'm considering an ESAT 2022-150, C-Band PLL LNB for my next experiment. About the same price as the 8525 on Ebay.

    Code:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/265618361371
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    #38
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    PLL lnbs require more power as compared to DRO lnbs. PLL lnbs will not help much if any when watching satellite tv. PLL lnbs may help with radio stations and data on transponders with a symbol rate of 1000 or less.
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