Update on My C-Band Satellite Setup: Need Some Help! 🚀

W

WilburSmith

New member
Hey everyone,

IÂ’ve been working tirelessly on setting up my C-Band satellite antenna, and I wanted to share the details of my setup and the challenges IÂ’m facing.

Current Setup:

Installation: My satellite antennaÂ’s mounting pole is perfectly plumb, securely mounted into concrete. The dish is securely fastened to this pole.

Adjustments:

From Dish Pointer, I got my latitude: 41.6120°, which equals an elevation angle of 41.65° and a declination angle of 5.74°.
I used two inclinometers (plastic and digital) to ensure my elevation angle is set correctly to 41.65°.
LNBF:

Purchased new, a SatMaximum 5G filter C band LNBF.
Input: 3.7-4.2GHz
Output: 950-1450 MHz
L.O.: 5150 MHz
In my set-top box, I set the LNB frequency to 5150 (not 5150/5750).
Transponders I Tried:

91 West: Word Network (Frequency: 4067 Horizontal, Polarization: 6620)
101 West: Daystar (Frequency: 4005 Vertical, Polarization: 4444)
97 West: WGN Sports (Frequency: 3731 Horizontal, Polarization: 12800)
Challenges:

Despite ensuring all settings (elevation, declination) are accurate, I haven't received any frequency or response from a satellite. I tried adjusting the declination values above and below the designated range, but still no signal.

One potential issue could be the skew adjustment on the LNBF. It has a range of 30 to 0 to 30, with 0 in the middle. The values 34, 36, 38, 40, 42 are engraved on the side of the LNBF, and IÂ’m unsure how to set the skew correctly. The distance from the center of my dish to the screws is about 36 inches, which might also play a role.

Additional Info:

Source of Latitude and Declination Info: TVROSat Forum
Unfortunately, I canÂ’t provide pictures as my camera is broken. If anyone has insights or advice on what might be going wrong, especially regarding the skew setting, IÂ’d greatly appreciate your help!

Thanks in advance!
 
Didn't you setup and adjust a motorized KU band satellite dish? C and KU band dish aiming is similar.

What receiver are you using for signal adjustment? Do you have the receiver setup by the dish so you can see what is happeneing to the signal as you adjust the dish?

It is best to set the dish up first on a satellite directly South for motorized systems. I have no idea what is due South for you so I cannot give you a strong transponder to look for.

LNB Skew can be off or the depth of the LNB in the scalar ring can be off or the LNB feed can be installed incorrectly and you will not get a signal. Actual clear pictures of the dish and LNB help as problems can be seen. If you cannot or will not supply actual clear pictures of the dish and LNB, then your job of adjusting the thing becomes harder.

Some LNB's do not work on the same frequencies as other LNB's. OR the polarity of the LNB can be backwards due to improper LNB setting. You will not get a signal if either of these two conditions exist. Blindscan the satellite every time you move the dish or make an adjustment. Lots of times, you will be on or near the satellite, but cannot get a signal because of the polarity or frequency being wrong. Blindscan does not care about these two problems. Hopefully you have a receiver with a decent blindscan.

A cheap spectrum analyzer such as the TinySA or TinySA-Ultra are almost invaluable in setting up a dish like this. The little analyzer allows you to "see" all of the transponders for an entire polarity before they are strong enough for the FTA receiver to recognize them.

Dish elevation is elevation plus declination. In other words, Don't measure the elevation angle wrong! Make sure you are measuring the dish angle correctly else you will never get a signal. A prime focus c band dish will appear to be aimed some twenty degrees higher in the sky as compared to an offset ku dish. If the dish elevation is off by a small amount, you will not get a signal.

It gets easier once the first transponder is locked.
Best of Luck!
 
One potential issue could be the skew adjustment on the LNBF. It has a range of 30 to 0 to 30, with 0 in the middle.
Those numbers are LNB Skew. On a motorized system, 0 should be straight up (Vertical when the dish is at center or due south. You have a cheap China Product for a LNBF. Those markings may/may not be correct.


[BThe values 34, 36, 38, 40, 42 are engraved on the side of the LNBF,][/B]
This is the depth for the LNBF in the scalar ring Again, you have a cheap China product. The markings may/may not be correct, but are usually fairly close. Most Professional type equipment will not have any side markings.

There are two common types of scalar rings. You have the cheap China junk, and you have the ones that are actually made for C band television.
scalar-rings.webp

The ring on the bottom in the photo above is a true satellite tv C band ring. The ring on the top is the cheap China crap that almost every LNBF ships with. The cheap china ring will work, but it is designed for frequencies much higher than the ones used for satellite television. Less metal =Less production cost. You usually get what you pay for...

The proper depth for the LNBF is found by doing measurements and calculations. These calculations assume the depth marks on the LNBF are correct. If you don't know where to set it, then set it to around 38-40. The depth should be adjusted for maximum signal once the dish is tracking the arc.

Here is a LNBF set to about 41 using a good scalar ring:
Good-scalar-ring-depth.webp

Here is a cheap China ring and LNBF. This ring is not as thick, so the LNBF or LNB feed will stick out or protrude a bit more when this type of ring is used. About 1 inch difference in thickness between the two rings.
China-scalar-ring-depth.webp


On almost all of your homeowner type satellite dishes, the LNBF or the LNB feed will not stick out much or protrude much from the scalar ring. The scalar ring will not work if the depth is too deep, and nice things like pixelation or having to move the dish twice to get transponders on the same satellite may occur. if the LNBF or LNB feed is sticking out or protruding a couple of inches from the scalar ring, then it is most likely set too deep. Some proper examples are shown below.

10 foot mesh dish:
10ft-mesh.webp

3.7 meter Fiberglass Prodelin:
12ft-prodelin.webp

A 3700-4200 MHz 5G SatMaximum LNBF is useless for 5G interference problems in the United States.
If you can see a cell tower, or if a cell tower is located within one air mile of your satellite dish, then you can expect to have some sort of 5G interference.
 
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The feed support is another area of concern. On homeowner type dishes, the feed support arms holds the LNB, and may also help keep the dish properly curved (parabola). Feed support arms may rust over time and need replacing. The dish parabola should be checked anytime these arms are moved or adjusted. You can gain or lose several db in signal here.

The optimum way to move a satellite dish that was in operation is to dig it up, pole and all, load it onto a truck or trailer, carry it to its new home, and slide it into its new hole fully assembled without touching anything. The last dish I moved was done this way. The more you adjust or mess with your previously owned dish, the more likely you are to knock something out of alignment. Things like declination and elevation should be close if the used dish came from your local area, and it was in operation at some point in time.

Shown below is the dish arms on an old 7.5 foot mesh dish. Homeowner type satellite dishes with a single pole to hold the feed instead of a 3 or 4 leg support are more likely to warp. The feed supports help the dish keep its parabola, and can also be used to slightly change dish parabola. Note the slots in the feed arms in the photo below.

feedsupport.webp
 
The combination of a TinySA-Ultra analyzer, decent enigma2 receiver connected to a wireless network that reaches the dish makes aiming and satellite finding much easier. An alternative would be to take the receiver and small tv out to the dish. Having someone watch the signal meter and holler out the window is a last resort.

Life is much easier with these two tools.
IMG_20240523_200258929.webp
 
Well the first thing is aligning the dish and LNB to "Due South" this is 180 degrees on a map, but it can be different if you use a compass, use the app in dishpointer to find Due South at your location, align the dish and LNB to this heading and then find the closest satellite to South from your location for a test. If this is not done right you dish will not track the satellites in the Clark belt.

One question, is this a new dish or a used one?

If used it could be warped, this could throw the LNB's focal point off center, another possibility are the LNB mounting arms, if one is a replacement (slightly longer or shorter) or slightly bent it can throw things off.

Next would be the LNB's position at the focal point, the LNB needs to be at an exact length from the dish, too far in or out can cause loss of signal.
 
If he has the old LNB then there may be some marks on it as far as where to set the new one in the scalar ring.

It would be nice to know what satellite is his due South bird, there may be no "C" band transponders active on that one, their all different for different locations, my due South bird is at 121W Galaxy 31, there are only two active "C" band transponders on that one
 
Hey everyone,

I wanted to provide an update on my progress and address some of the suggestions and questions that have been raised.

First, I’m happy to report that I was able to get my 8-ft C-band satellite dish onto the Clarke Belt, and I have already successfully scanned some satellites. Here's a bit more detail about my setup and progress:

Dish Acquisition and Repairs: The satellite dish was obtained last year free of charge. Over the winter, I repaired the mesh and had the polar mount sandblasted and powder-coated.
LNBF Alignment: I invented an LNBF that shoots a laser to the center of the dish to ensure it is properly aligned.
Pole Mounting: I removed the concrete from the original pole and set the pole in new concrete, ensuring it is perfectly plumb using three magnetic inclinometers.
Actuator Plans: Next, on my agenda, when I have a free day, is to attach the actuator, learn how it works, and hopefully acquire more satellites.
Challenges:

Defective LNBF: Of the two LNBFs I purchased, one appears to be defective. The working LNBF is a dual KU band/C-band LNBF, while the sole C-band LNBF is the one with issues.
I really appreciate all the advice and support provided so far. I'll keep you all updated as the project progresses.

About My Camera Situation:
Please understand that I am not able to provide pictures currently because my smartphone broke. I don’t use a smartphone for calls due to hearing difficulties; I only use it for my calendar, taking photographs, and sending text messages.

Thanks again for your patience and understanding.

Best regards,
Wilbur Smith
 
Good progress. Tweaking the dish to track the arc will be a task. I recently helped a guy not far from me to get his old dish setup. The pole had sagged from dish weight and probably frost line heaving over the years. Told him to hook his Jeep winch up to the pole and shove a garden hose in the ground and soak the dirt for a day. And pull it so the pole was plumb and tamp a bag of Quickcrete around the pole. It worked.

Dishpointer helped a lot. Use landmarks like trees. In his case the wheelbarrow and pots on the edge of a garden. Screenshot, zoom in. Inclinometers are kind of 70-ish when you can get a cheap digital angle gauge that resolves to 0.1 degree and others that go to 0.01 for a little more. Really makes tweaking the dish geometry so much easier when making a polar mount track accuartely.

Pencil and paper. Dead nuts on your first target satellite. But a little low or high on ones close to it. As you slowly figure out the various azimuth, elevation, declination nudges needed.
It won't happen in a few hours. You'll be close. I track from 127W out to at least 40.5W. And pulling/pushing the dish rim anyplace in the arc on a sat shows it's as spot on as could be.
But believe me. That all didn't happen in even a few days.
I've noticed that in the summer the dish tracks a little different than in the winter.
Probably should really tweak the declination. But the elevation is a lot easier to do. So I do it. Not that I have to. I just like to snag every last 0.1 dB of signal I can.

The Jeep dude. Didn't even have to drive to his place. He got it. Took some work and phone calls.He finally agreed that a table,extension cord, receiver, monitor, and dish mover (an old Houston Tracker) was way much better than his sat finder thingy. It kept crapping out when switching polarities.
 
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