FTA Receiver and Norsat lnb Electrical Requirements
- Thread starter ArloG
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Oh no! Didn't mean to ruffle the feathers or seem thick. Perhaps the wording? Or I am thick.
"A multswitch" is normally described as diseqc. 1.0, 1.1, etc. Therefore my understanding (up to this point) is that in the receiver setup I will need to assign a port to use.
And the geosatpro 8X1 worked exactly like that. So, your description did leave a bit of ambiguity.
On Tek's site. In the attachment. His switch is perfectly described as a voltage switch. 13 volts comes in, port 1 is active. 18 volts comes in, port 2 is active.
The others. I could not find any user guides, op. manuals, etc. Nothing.
Just knowing in clear English HOW they funcrion, how to install one. Sure would be nice to know and learn from.
Further. The switches with 13, Antenna, 18 volts led me to believe that a diseqc setting is needed. Because obviously the antenna port need to switch in the circuit.
So now. No voltage the antenna port is active. And the other two are voltage dependent.
Correct assumption?
What are the chances of getting 2 identical 22 kHz switches at the same time and having both defective? Either it's me or they are shot out of the boxes.
That's why I gave up on tone switches. The 8X1 just worked. Easy as pie. So, there you have it.
Correct, proper might have been better. In other FTA forums. Usually the so called "hack sites". People are using DP, DPP-44 switches. In Dish's jargon, the switch ports are in Dish 'language'.
And they also have tone switches.
There are correct, proper ways to sequence switches. Like tone switches always follow diseqc switches Never before them.
Cascading switches is fuzzy-land. No real guides exist that do anything but say do-it-this-way. Nor step-by-step procedures with explanations besides diagrams.
Remember. I did a lot of technical writing. Taking complicated manuals and dummying them down to a 10 step procedure for the machine operators. But......
If you're provided with garbage info.You end up with garbage results. So trial and error. Working with the operators. Editing the docs. Do it again. Until it's in plain English. They loved me at one time.
You did a great job really. Maybe it is me. Maybe it's your familiarity and fluidity of just knowing. Haha. Or you're just a rotten teacher. I'm a crappy student?
Take a gander if you could. If what seems to be true is true. Then should the sketch work w/o a hitch?
Receiver tells port 1 of the diseqc switch to turn on.
Port 1 sends signal on 13 or 18 volts to the voltage switch. One or the other lnb's are connected and either H or V RF is sent back to the receiver.
Set ku to use port 2 of the diseqc switch. And it does what is advertised.
Look good?
Edit:
Neglected to include the power inserter that will follow the voltage switch and before the Norsat's.
"A multswitch" is normally described as diseqc. 1.0, 1.1, etc. Therefore my understanding (up to this point) is that in the receiver setup I will need to assign a port to use.
And the geosatpro 8X1 worked exactly like that. So, your description did leave a bit of ambiguity.
On Tek's site. In the attachment. His switch is perfectly described as a voltage switch. 13 volts comes in, port 1 is active. 18 volts comes in, port 2 is active.
The others. I could not find any user guides, op. manuals, etc. Nothing.
Just knowing in clear English HOW they funcrion, how to install one. Sure would be nice to know and learn from.
Further. The switches with 13, Antenna, 18 volts led me to believe that a diseqc setting is needed. Because obviously the antenna port need to switch in the circuit.
So now. No voltage the antenna port is active. And the other two are voltage dependent.
Correct assumption?
What are the chances of getting 2 identical 22 kHz switches at the same time and having both defective? Either it's me or they are shot out of the boxes.
That's why I gave up on tone switches. The 8X1 just worked. Easy as pie. So, there you have it.
Correct, proper might have been better. In other FTA forums. Usually the so called "hack sites". People are using DP, DPP-44 switches. In Dish's jargon, the switch ports are in Dish 'language'.
And they also have tone switches.
There are correct, proper ways to sequence switches. Like tone switches always follow diseqc switches Never before them.
Cascading switches is fuzzy-land. No real guides exist that do anything but say do-it-this-way. Nor step-by-step procedures with explanations besides diagrams.
Remember. I did a lot of technical writing. Taking complicated manuals and dummying them down to a 10 step procedure for the machine operators. But......
If you're provided with garbage info.You end up with garbage results. So trial and error. Working with the operators. Editing the docs. Do it again. Until it's in plain English. They loved me at one time.
You did a great job really. Maybe it is me. Maybe it's your familiarity and fluidity of just knowing. Haha. Or you're just a rotten teacher. I'm a crappy student?
Take a gander if you could. If what seems to be true is true. Then should the sketch work w/o a hitch?
Receiver tells port 1 of the diseqc switch to turn on.
Port 1 sends signal on 13 or 18 volts to the voltage switch. One or the other lnb's are connected and either H or V RF is sent back to the receiver.
Set ku to use port 2 of the diseqc switch. And it does what is advertised.
Look good?
Edit:
Neglected to include the power inserter that will follow the voltage switch and before the Norsat's.
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One more time, In General,
A multiswitch uses Voltage to switch between antenna ports. Period.
There are variants of a multiswitch that use 22KHz tone, thus "In General". The antenna ports are labeled on a New multiswitch and explain what is needed to activate them. I have never seen a multiswitch by itself use or need a diseqc command.
Your diagram of a multiswitch in your last post is correct and will work. Diseqc switch(es) can be installed in front of or after a multiswitch.
22KHz Tone switches do not normally arrive "bad" or "dead" unless they are used. a lot in FTA satellite. First thing to do when examining problem parts is to check the current draw. The current will be nonexsistant or unusually high in a bad satellite switch. Shown below is a healthy Ecoda 22 KHz tone switch pulling 10mA.
If installed in front of a multiswitch, the diseqc switch will have all the current the multiswitch needs to pass through it when the multiswitch is selected. A heavy duty diseqc switch such a Chieta would be suggested if installing a diseqc switch in front of a multiswitch. Using a Powered multiswitch makes this a moot point.
Installing a diseqc switch after the multiswitch usually requires 2 switches, one for the 13 volt side, and another for the 18 volt side. The lnb usually requires dual ports at minimum so the two sides (13v/18v) of the multisiwtch can be connected to it.
A multiswitch uses Voltage to switch between antenna ports. Period.
There are variants of a multiswitch that use 22KHz tone, thus "In General". The antenna ports are labeled on a New multiswitch and explain what is needed to activate them. I have never seen a multiswitch by itself use or need a diseqc command.
Your diagram of a multiswitch in your last post is correct and will work. Diseqc switch(es) can be installed in front of or after a multiswitch.
22KHz Tone switches do not normally arrive "bad" or "dead" unless they are used. a lot in FTA satellite. First thing to do when examining problem parts is to check the current draw. The current will be nonexsistant or unusually high in a bad satellite switch. Shown below is a healthy Ecoda 22 KHz tone switch pulling 10mA.
If installed in front of a multiswitch, the diseqc switch will have all the current the multiswitch needs to pass through it when the multiswitch is selected. A heavy duty diseqc switch such a Chieta would be suggested if installing a diseqc switch in front of a multiswitch. Using a Powered multiswitch makes this a moot point.
Installing a diseqc switch after the multiswitch usually requires 2 switches, one for the 13 volt side, and another for the 18 volt side. The lnb usually requires dual ports at minimum so the two sides (13v/18v) of the multisiwtch can be connected to it.
I'm seeing what you're trying to convey now. Listed as multiswitches....multiple port switches......on the label for voltage switches they state it.
But a blanket search for satellite, lnb, lnbf multiswitch results in diseqc switches. Normally printed on their sticker.
And yes. I will only need juice enough to power the diseqc and voltage switch. So powered anything is not needed.
I got 'bilked' an a NOS Pansat lnbf for c band. It was confusing how I only got signal on one port and only one polarity. And the other port gave opposite polarity.
Until I got smart (no specs for the unit). A voltage switch would be needed. Correct?
Kind of two-timing on satguys for brand suggestions. One guy comes up with I need a 22 kHz tone switch. Conflicting as hell.. Why?
Because in the tuner setup menu I see no setting to use a tone switch for polarity switching.
I do see the setting to turn tone on or off based on a low/high band ku lnbf by threshold. Threshold was confusing until I read the Eutelsat diseqc protocol manual.
Still, nothing in tuner setup hints that for vertical or horizontal polarity you can send tone either off or on.
Thanks. I'll look. Hopefully choose a long lived, reliable, non PITA pair of switches and get this project aced.
Oh.
And yet Another edit:
If my only selection for a voltage switch is a 3 in/2,3,4 out to receiver.
Would it be wise to terminate the unused outs with a 75 ohm terminator?
I have a nice box of f compression connectors for different coax, weather caps of different types. And screw-on security caps, weather caps, and screw on terminators.
Thanks to the cable guy in FL. that left them behind on an a/c unit.
But a blanket search for satellite, lnb, lnbf multiswitch results in diseqc switches. Normally printed on their sticker.
And yes. I will only need juice enough to power the diseqc and voltage switch. So powered anything is not needed.
I got 'bilked' an a NOS Pansat lnbf for c band. It was confusing how I only got signal on one port and only one polarity. And the other port gave opposite polarity.
Until I got smart (no specs for the unit). A voltage switch would be needed. Correct?
Kind of two-timing on satguys for brand suggestions. One guy comes up with I need a 22 kHz tone switch. Conflicting as hell.. Why?
Because in the tuner setup menu I see no setting to use a tone switch for polarity switching.
I do see the setting to turn tone on or off based on a low/high band ku lnbf by threshold. Threshold was confusing until I read the Eutelsat diseqc protocol manual.
Still, nothing in tuner setup hints that for vertical or horizontal polarity you can send tone either off or on.
Thanks. I'll look. Hopefully choose a long lived, reliable, non PITA pair of switches and get this project aced.
Oh.
And yet Another edit:
If my only selection for a voltage switch is a 3 in/2,3,4 out to receiver.
Would it be wise to terminate the unused outs with a 75 ohm terminator?
I have a nice box of f compression connectors for different coax, weather caps of different types. And screw-on security caps, weather caps, and screw on terminators.
Thanks to the cable guy in FL. that left them behind on an a/c unit.
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Obviously it didn't do me any good to post all of those links to multiswitches did it? You did mot bother to look...
I don't terminate any unused ports. I tried that once on something (don't remember exactly what...) and the terminator got extremely hot. Capping unused ports will not hurt anything.
I don't terminate any unused ports. I tried that once on something (don't remember exactly what...) and the terminator got extremely hot. Capping unused ports will not hurt anything.
LNBS and lnbfs have model numbers. It helps to post information about what exactly you are trying to use.
Two port lnbf's that require a multiswitch usually have a H and V near the ports or F connectors. A multiswitch cab be used on almost any 2 port lnbf.
Multiswitches are called multiswitches. They are not called Voltage Switches.
The average FTA receiver should be able to power the 8515 and 3120 at the same time. The Chieta diseqc switch is nicely built. I bet you like that one. So hook it all up and see what happens.
While waiting on these parts to arrive, i would suggest testing each of those lnbs On The Dish for an extended period of time. Your Norsat DRO may outperform the PLL because the DRO has a slight noise advantage. The PLL lnb would be perfect for low powered, narrow data signal where the frequency has to be almost dead-on. None of our fta receivers are capable of such frequency accuracy. Don't really need it for most of the signals that are available for FTA.
While waiting on these parts to arrive, i would suggest testing each of those lnbs On The Dish for an extended period of time. Your Norsat DRO may outperform the PLL because the DRO has a slight noise advantage. The PLL lnb would be perfect for low powered, narrow data signal where the frequency has to be almost dead-on. None of our fta receivers are capable of such frequency accuracy. Don't really need it for most of the signals that are available for FTA.
EB. I really do hope it all melds together nicely. As for the test. I really want to get the osmio4k hooked back up and fine tune the dish, install the Titanium dish mover.
I have heard that the Chieta is the one to have. I don't mind spending a little more for hopefully better quality stuff. You know. I just like doing good work and making it look good.
Maybe you will approve of the final install.
Any hints on what to look for as far as 'tricky' signal capture would be cool. I am kind of proud that through the entire arc I'm able to see. 40.5 - 127W. A pull and push of the dish rim decreases signal. It's pretty spot on in that aspect. But a thought is a couple of guy wires might need to be strung from the button hook to the upper dish rim. It's not flimsy nor shakes, but there is more weight than even the original corotor that was there with c &ku lnb's.
I choose the weakest transponders on a clear night for the fine tweaks.
Still intriguing is what you're able to receive above 4.2 GHz.
I have heard that the Chieta is the one to have. I don't mind spending a little more for hopefully better quality stuff. You know. I just like doing good work and making it look good.
Maybe you will approve of the final install.
Any hints on what to look for as far as 'tricky' signal capture would be cool. I am kind of proud that through the entire arc I'm able to see. 40.5 - 127W. A pull and push of the dish rim decreases signal. It's pretty spot on in that aspect. But a thought is a couple of guy wires might need to be strung from the button hook to the upper dish rim. It's not flimsy nor shakes, but there is more weight than even the original corotor that was there with c &ku lnb's.
I choose the weakest transponders on a clear night for the fine tweaks.
Still intriguing is what you're able to receive above 4.2 GHz.
The final install should meet Your approval, not mine. I would suggest though to get a decent electrical box from Home Depot or similar to mount your switch. The cheesy switch boxes the FTA dealers sell might last a whole season or two. A small electrical outdoor box that meets code should be there for 20 years or more.
My c band dish has been effectively neutered and I now only get transponders from 4000 MHz to 4200 MHz. No more 4800 Mhz transponders for me due to the filters for 5G. The pair of filters were around $550.00, but life continues. There wasn't not a whole lot on the 4800 MHz transponders, but there was a station in Guyana that plays good, uncut movies without commercials. I liked it. Anyway, life goes on...
My c band dish has been effectively neutered and I now only get transponders from 4000 MHz to 4200 MHz. No more 4800 Mhz transponders for me due to the filters for 5G. The pair of filters were around $550.00, but life continues. There wasn't not a whole lot on the 4800 MHz transponders, but there was a station in Guyana that plays good, uncut movies without commercials. I liked it. Anyway, life goes on...
The best satellite to check for performance will be 117w C band. You can expect to find at least 60 transponders on that satellite if everything is working correctly. And the transponders will be all shapes and sizes too.
lme
Legit VIP
Remember that every product made in China, is very good on paper only; physically some of them NOT so good !
Bought 2 Chieta few years ago: 1has a dead port. The other one is in service. So, my advice is buy 2 pcs: you may end up with 2 good one, or like me only 1 good.
I have owned several Chieta switches. None of them had problems when new.
There is not much of a way to do anything about something being made in China. Almost all of the lnbs we use are made in that country along with most of our other electronic devices.
There is not much of a way to do anything about something being made in China. Almost all of the lnbs we use are made in that country along with most of our other electronic devices.
Friday. Sighs of relief. Dish is back up and working very nice. ASC1 all fixed.
The Chieta kind of freaked me out because when I added the ku lnbf I couldn't get Port 2 to work.
Ran out and checked voltage at it and nothing...millivolts. Port 1 for c band worked straight up.
The goesatpro 8X1 diseqc 1.1 switch worked well until it died.
Found out that for the chieta, using diseqc 1.0 and setting port a for c band (port 1 worked fine under 1.1)
And port b for ku. Got port voltage and all was good.
Fashioned up a few aluminum clip on rim brackets and used some coax messenger wire that the cable dude gave me with some old coax. Schmoozed the paint on the rim. No biggie.
Used a guitar tuner for tuning the guy wires to low E on a bass..okay that's bs. But no buttonhook wobble and shake at all. Cool.
Well, so far at least I like it. Mocked everything on a board because will go into a outdoor box
Oh. The heat issue on the power inserter was aced by using a 19.5 volt 2.5 a laptop power supply. Which puts the LM317 regulator right at the 2 volt requirement for regulation. With only around 2 voltcs drop, heat is at a minimum versus the 24 vac wall wart that was shipped.
Signals look great. Even ku is coming stronger than ever. Peaked it all in last night late.
Oh, Friday? Beer o'clock. Yeahhh!
Edit:
**Burrrp**
Forgot to mention and although was mentioned not really needed. There was a bit of a delay when the chieta switched ports.
Somewhere I did remember somebody mentioning something about terminating unused ports. I happen to have a bunch of them.
When adding them to the unused ports, switching is almost immediate. Before it would be like 7-10 seconds before signal popped up on the screen and a picture showed.
The Chieta kind of freaked me out because when I added the ku lnbf I couldn't get Port 2 to work.
Ran out and checked voltage at it and nothing...millivolts. Port 1 for c band worked straight up.
The goesatpro 8X1 diseqc 1.1 switch worked well until it died.
Found out that for the chieta, using diseqc 1.0 and setting port a for c band (port 1 worked fine under 1.1)
And port b for ku. Got port voltage and all was good.
Fashioned up a few aluminum clip on rim brackets and used some coax messenger wire that the cable dude gave me with some old coax. Schmoozed the paint on the rim. No biggie.
Used a guitar tuner for tuning the guy wires to low E on a bass..okay that's bs. But no buttonhook wobble and shake at all. Cool.
Well, so far at least I like it. Mocked everything on a board because will go into a outdoor box
Oh. The heat issue on the power inserter was aced by using a 19.5 volt 2.5 a laptop power supply. Which puts the LM317 regulator right at the 2 volt requirement for regulation. With only around 2 voltcs drop, heat is at a minimum versus the 24 vac wall wart that was shipped.
Signals look great. Even ku is coming stronger than ever. Peaked it all in last night late.
Oh, Friday? Beer o'clock. Yeahhh!
Edit:
**Burrrp**
Forgot to mention and although was mentioned not really needed. There was a bit of a delay when the chieta switched ports.
Somewhere I did remember somebody mentioning something about terminating unused ports. I happen to have a bunch of them.
When adding them to the unused ports, switching is almost immediate. Before it would be like 7-10 seconds before signal popped up on the screen and a picture showed.
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It looks good, but to me there is a lot of stuff there for only three lnbs. At any rate, what you have should run a long time.
Installing a powered multiswitch would eliminate one piece of hardware which is the power inserter.
Installing a two port powered multiswitch would eliminate both the power inserter and the Chieat diseqc sswitch. But you would have needed to also buy a dual port ku lnbf.
At least you have room for expansion, up to 2 more lnbs with what you have. Hopefully it will run a long time.
You should have around 5 pounds of feed horn and lnbs mounted to the dish. This is not a terribly large amount of weight, and the way you have it setup should hold. The only thing that does not look right is the lnb feed horn seems too deep in the scalar ring, thus making the scalar ring useless.
None of these comments matter though as long as you are happy with the performance. Locking a few 16 or 32 apsk feeds will show how well the system is working. 16 and 32 apsk transponders with 4/5 and 9/10 fec's can be extremely difficult. Hopefully you will get a long period of time out of the system before it needs more maintenance!
Installing a powered multiswitch would eliminate one piece of hardware which is the power inserter.
Installing a two port powered multiswitch would eliminate both the power inserter and the Chieat diseqc sswitch. But you would have needed to also buy a dual port ku lnbf.
At least you have room for expansion, up to 2 more lnbs with what you have. Hopefully it will run a long time.
You should have around 5 pounds of feed horn and lnbs mounted to the dish. This is not a terribly large amount of weight, and the way you have it setup should hold. The only thing that does not look right is the lnb feed horn seems too deep in the scalar ring, thus making the scalar ring useless.
None of these comments matter though as long as you are happy with the performance. Locking a few 16 or 32 apsk feeds will show how well the system is working. 16 and 32 apsk transponders with 4/5 and 9/10 fec's can be extremely difficult. Hopefully you will get a long period of time out of the system before it needs more maintenance!
What I noticed when opening the inserter to add the F connector. And already knew. No direct coupling to the rest of the downstream components. And somewhat of a surge suppression approach.
Right up my alley. Once bitten, twice shy. And don't be surprised if a proper surge arrestor shows up.
Too much? Over engineered? I'm definitely open to criticism. The whole dish and stuff will be bonded to ground with a new rod. You can only try.
I'll repeat this. When things went South last summer. Wherever lightning struck. There was no crack. Just a flash and right after the strongest waft of ozone I ever got a whiff of.
LNBF. Toast. ASC1. Toast. 8X1. Toast. Tektronix DSO. Toast. Mess with a snake, you're gonna get bit. Electricity has no conscience.
Ahhh. The feed horn. What I thought too. It cannot go any deeper due to the ribs on the ortho.
But comparing it to the C2W and hours of previous solving over/under illumination. Going by the f/D calculations that somehow just did not work. Plus having the original C/Ku corotor.
Bolt marks look spot on. TBH, the feed casting may be 1/8" or less full in. But going in more than that. Forget it. Tried flipping it 180. It's not going in any deeper. That's what she said.
On the next trip to the warehouse I can definitely look how the other junkers were rigged. I mean, going to a pressurized waveguide and subreflector could be an option. Buying tanks of N2 would suck.
Thinking the guy wires were a must because the extra weight made it a wobbler. That connector between the thick wall aluminum tubing is cast aluminum and who knows what tig rod would work if it broke. Let's not break it, deal? It's an early 80's dish and all was made locally. Even the castings for the polar mount. I ain't buying another one.
Maybe you could throw a few of those sats with 16/32 aspk to try. Reelz on 127W is coming in 14.9-15.2 dB. And it's drizzling out. Covered all of the too-much stuff with a chunk of rolled roofing.
Right up my alley. Once bitten, twice shy. And don't be surprised if a proper surge arrestor shows up.
Too much? Over engineered? I'm definitely open to criticism. The whole dish and stuff will be bonded to ground with a new rod. You can only try.
I'll repeat this. When things went South last summer. Wherever lightning struck. There was no crack. Just a flash and right after the strongest waft of ozone I ever got a whiff of.
LNBF. Toast. ASC1. Toast. 8X1. Toast. Tektronix DSO. Toast. Mess with a snake, you're gonna get bit. Electricity has no conscience.
Ahhh. The feed horn. What I thought too. It cannot go any deeper due to the ribs on the ortho.
But comparing it to the C2W and hours of previous solving over/under illumination. Going by the f/D calculations that somehow just did not work. Plus having the original C/Ku corotor.
Bolt marks look spot on. TBH, the feed casting may be 1/8" or less full in. But going in more than that. Forget it. Tried flipping it 180. It's not going in any deeper. That's what she said.
On the next trip to the warehouse I can definitely look how the other junkers were rigged. I mean, going to a pressurized waveguide and subreflector could be an option. Buying tanks of N2 would suck.
Thinking the guy wires were a must because the extra weight made it a wobbler. That connector between the thick wall aluminum tubing is cast aluminum and who knows what tig rod would work if it broke. Let's not break it, deal? It's an early 80's dish and all was made locally. Even the castings for the polar mount. I ain't buying another one.
Maybe you could throw a few of those sats with 16/32 aspk to try. Reelz on 127W is coming in 14.9-15.2 dB. And it's drizzling out. Covered all of the too-much stuff with a chunk of rolled roofing.
Run a scalar in too deep and it no longer works: All you have is another piece of metal in the way. Having an old corotor to measure with does not mean much as it could have been installed right, wrong, or somewhere in between. I used to know an installer who specialized in C band dishes. He said more than once that the scalar ring was not important to install on a dish 10 ft. or bigger. You had all types of installers 30-40+ years ago, The Good, The Bad, and the somewhere in between types.
The feed tube should be about flush in that particular scalar ring as it is one of the thick, correct ones. Look at dish pictures when they are posted and you will see most c band horns are about flush with a decent scalar ring or thereabouts. The further in you go, the less you illuminate, to a point where the scalar no longer works. you probably can get another 1-2 db in that area. IMO, It's worth looking at.
16/32 APSK transponders with channels can be found on 87w,89w,93w,95w and at times, 121w. They can also appear at other locations but those are most common. You can either hunt for them your self or look at Rick's satellite website for listings. 16 apsk transponders with 4/5 fec, and 9/10 fec can be hard to get. 32 apsk can be difficult to impossible. Having a receiver that shows signal below lock helps.
The feed tube should be about flush in that particular scalar ring as it is one of the thick, correct ones. Look at dish pictures when they are posted and you will see most c band horns are about flush with a decent scalar ring or thereabouts. The further in you go, the less you illuminate, to a point where the scalar no longer works. you probably can get another 1-2 db in that area. IMO, It's worth looking at.
16/32 APSK transponders with channels can be found on 87w,89w,93w,95w and at times, 121w. They can also appear at other locations but those are most common. You can either hunt for them your self or look at Rick's satellite website for listings. 16 apsk transponders with 4/5 fec, and 9/10 fec can be hard to get. 32 apsk can be difficult to impossible. Having a receiver that shows signal below lock helps.
Oh. You sparked thought. The C2W did not have to go in as deep in the scalar as the ortho does. With the assumption that over careful in/out scalar adjustment that did take a lot of time over a period.
I'd think that it should be positioned as good as it can be. With the assumption that over/under illumination of the dish is dependent on the scalar position. And the feed is independent.
You tell me. You noticed that the feed looks like it's in too deep. But it's focused for the best signal w/o moving the scalar.
Does any of that make sense? Or is there a conflict in my understanding that every feed/scalar combination will have different settings.
Take for example the rim pole mounts. Nobody would ever think of moving the scalar. Because they can't. Right? So one might use brand A lnbf and another brand B on the same exact.....Prodelin?....dish.
Let's jump back a few years here. I did the cross string thing. Was very surprised that making a pie pattern with crossed strings showed maybe 1/8" gap in the center. Not bad for a 12'er?
I did the f and f/D calculations. Did what was instructed. Oh. Is that damned scalar position measured from the face of it or the rear?
Put a brand new Titanium lnbf on. It was super sensitive to the slightest movement and for a 'noob', signal strength was a bummer. Thinking, man it should be better.
Started moving the scalar in and out. Different combinations ended up grabbing several dB more signal.
When I finally figured out that the scalar and feed was positioned for the absolute best signal. And it definitely was. After a ton of Sharpie marks. Worm clamps on the feed tubing for a reference.
That's were it was fixed. And has been.
But we go back to the pole mounts. Guys accept that the scalar is where it's supposed to be. And I see photos showing different feed 'stick out'.
Open for suggestions. But still thinking that moving the scalar towards the dish more will lose the illumination. And trying to move it out 1/4" or so more won't let me bring the feed into focus.
Earlier before bed I got a transponder with no video that pegged the needle at 18 dB. The highest signal I ever saw. Ever. That's with the latest ViX.
Going to see what happens when I boot into TNAP. You know, the image with the cute anime "that's not a prostitut....." (ohhh. never mind) chickie.
I'd think that it should be positioned as good as it can be. With the assumption that over/under illumination of the dish is dependent on the scalar position. And the feed is independent.
You tell me. You noticed that the feed looks like it's in too deep. But it's focused for the best signal w/o moving the scalar.
Does any of that make sense? Or is there a conflict in my understanding that every feed/scalar combination will have different settings.
Take for example the rim pole mounts. Nobody would ever think of moving the scalar. Because they can't. Right? So one might use brand A lnbf and another brand B on the same exact.....Prodelin?....dish.
Let's jump back a few years here. I did the cross string thing. Was very surprised that making a pie pattern with crossed strings showed maybe 1/8" gap in the center. Not bad for a 12'er?
I did the f and f/D calculations. Did what was instructed. Oh. Is that damned scalar position measured from the face of it or the rear?
Put a brand new Titanium lnbf on. It was super sensitive to the slightest movement and for a 'noob', signal strength was a bummer. Thinking, man it should be better.
Started moving the scalar in and out. Different combinations ended up grabbing several dB more signal.
When I finally figured out that the scalar and feed was positioned for the absolute best signal. And it definitely was. After a ton of Sharpie marks. Worm clamps on the feed tubing for a reference.
That's were it was fixed. And has been.
But we go back to the pole mounts. Guys accept that the scalar is where it's supposed to be. And I see photos showing different feed 'stick out'.
Open for suggestions. But still thinking that moving the scalar towards the dish more will lose the illumination. And trying to move it out 1/4" or so more won't let me bring the feed into focus.
Earlier before bed I got a transponder with no video that pegged the needle at 18 dB. The highest signal I ever saw. Ever. That's with the latest ViX.
Going to see what happens when I boot into TNAP. You know, the image with the cute anime "that's not a prostitut....." (ohhh. never mind) chickie.
When the scalar ring is too far up the feed tube, it quits doing its job and becomes a useless piece of metal. That's what you have according to the pictures.
On that dish system, the scalar ring can be removed, correct? If so, remove it and see what happens. Or if you are satisfied with the performance, then leave it alone.
If you are going to mess with the TNAP, then update it it to version 5.1, then update 5.1 again online. The blindscan 105w without selecting scan only free" and see how long it takes.
On that dish system, the scalar ring can be removed, correct? If so, remove it and see what happens. Or if you are satisfied with the performance, then leave it alone.
If you are going to mess with the TNAP, then update it it to version 5.1, then update 5.1 again online. The blindscan 105w without selecting scan only free" and see how long it takes.
Open for discussion. Because what is written and what works is conflicting.
One school says the scalar is to block interference from beyond the dish rim.
Another says pretty much the same but expands on the rings are designed to reflect outer edge microwaves back to the dish surface and then back into the feed throat of the waveguide.
In phase with the received signals that get reflected into the feed on the rest of the dish.
f/D. Let's take a support arm dish for example. Do the calculations. Place the lnbf, etc. into the scalar that was set at the distance the math told you. And that's that.
Couldn't be further from the truth. You may have a signal but never the best one if you don't fine tune the focus. Lets ignore the obvious polarity settings.
Remembering now several years back. When doing the upgrades. Brand new Titanium lnbf with instructions. Strings, rulers. Calculations. Scalar set exactly as close as possible from the math.
Lnbf stuck in exactly where told to. Signal sucked when I actually got one. But hey, that's it?
After dialing in the lnbf for best signal. The throat was very close to the scalar ribs. Other pictures showed it sticking out more like the scale on the lnbf and instructions told you to.
Little by little I moved the scalar back. Of course focus would always stay the same. And signal gradually got stronger. And stronger.
When I reached a point where the scalar distance didn't increase the signal any more. Having moved it back in very small increments each time. Ended up moving it closer a touch.
I could dig up a picture of the final setting that worked for me. The lnbf setting was definitely deeper than the scale indicated it should.
And the dish was less sensitive to the slightest movement.
A couple of hours refreshing the old noggin'. Remembering doing all of it in late November in N. PA. Brrrr.
And a similar story dug up from the zen archives from satguys. A dude who went through the exact same thing. His final setting in the photo attached.
There was an article where a guy cut the outside casting rib of a Bullseye dual feed to get it into the scalar deeper.
Another one with an adjustable scalar that has screws and jam nuts like I put on mine. Mine were to get the scalar parallel with the face of the dish and equal distance around the edge to dish surface.
But cool still.
Akin it to a photographer using a tape measure to distance a flower to the focal plane of a camera. Setting the lens exactly to that length with the f-stop wide-open.
With a butterfly landing. And the ground glass is a little fuzzy or the split screen has him split instead of in line with it. The photog. is there, But not quite there and twists the lens barrel a touch.
Same. But different.
And brings up the thought. Okay. High quality, engineered dishes with support arms and their own scalar ring would have it bolted exactly where it needs to be.
But an installer who stuck the feed in it right where the math said to. Set the skew angle. Saw a signal and called it a day. He wouldn't be that good. Would he?
One school says the scalar is to block interference from beyond the dish rim.
Another says pretty much the same but expands on the rings are designed to reflect outer edge microwaves back to the dish surface and then back into the feed throat of the waveguide.
In phase with the received signals that get reflected into the feed on the rest of the dish.
f/D. Let's take a support arm dish for example. Do the calculations. Place the lnbf, etc. into the scalar that was set at the distance the math told you. And that's that.
Couldn't be further from the truth. You may have a signal but never the best one if you don't fine tune the focus. Lets ignore the obvious polarity settings.
Remembering now several years back. When doing the upgrades. Brand new Titanium lnbf with instructions. Strings, rulers. Calculations. Scalar set exactly as close as possible from the math.
Lnbf stuck in exactly where told to. Signal sucked when I actually got one. But hey, that's it?
After dialing in the lnbf for best signal. The throat was very close to the scalar ribs. Other pictures showed it sticking out more like the scale on the lnbf and instructions told you to.
Little by little I moved the scalar back. Of course focus would always stay the same. And signal gradually got stronger. And stronger.
When I reached a point where the scalar distance didn't increase the signal any more. Having moved it back in very small increments each time. Ended up moving it closer a touch.
I could dig up a picture of the final setting that worked for me. The lnbf setting was definitely deeper than the scale indicated it should.
And the dish was less sensitive to the slightest movement.
A couple of hours refreshing the old noggin'. Remembering doing all of it in late November in N. PA. Brrrr.
And a similar story dug up from the zen archives from satguys. A dude who went through the exact same thing. His final setting in the photo attached.
There was an article where a guy cut the outside casting rib of a Bullseye dual feed to get it into the scalar deeper.
Another one with an adjustable scalar that has screws and jam nuts like I put on mine. Mine were to get the scalar parallel with the face of the dish and equal distance around the edge to dish surface.
But cool still.
Akin it to a photographer using a tape measure to distance a flower to the focal plane of a camera. Setting the lens exactly to that length with the f-stop wide-open.
With a butterfly landing. And the ground glass is a little fuzzy or the split screen has him split instead of in line with it. The photog. is there, But not quite there and twists the lens barrel a touch.
Same. But different.
And brings up the thought. Okay. High quality, engineered dishes with support arms and their own scalar ring would have it bolted exactly where it needs to be.
But an installer who stuck the feed in it right where the math said to. Set the skew angle. Saw a signal and called it a day. He wouldn't be that good. Would he?
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